If we are all born spiritually dead, in bondage to sin, unable to please God, and since no man seeks God on his own, yet all who come to Christ come freely (are not forced), might it be more appropriate to say that we come to Christ because of a ‘freed’ will than by ‘free will’?
We are not born spiritually dead. We die a spiritual death. Hence the word “Again” in the phrase “Born Again”. Born Again is a spiritual “resurrection” from spiritual death. Born again shows that at one time, we were spiritually alive prior to being spiritually dead.
Ref: Romans 7:7-9 (BEFORE the law…alive…SIN WAS DEAD….SIN WAS DEAD…SIN WAS DEAD. After the law…I DIED.
No knowledge = Ignorance. Ignorance = Innocence. (Deuteronomy 1:39).
Our lives are NO DIFFERENT than that of Adam and Eve. Hence babies do not go to hell, and it’s not due to God’s mercy and grace….it’s because they are ignorant, and based on that ignorance, they never died a spiritual death…they are not lost to begin with. One is only lost when they get knowledge of good and evil.
No need for babies to be sprinkled with water.
Yep…we are not born spiritually dead…we die a spiritual death.
In order to be dead, you must FIRST LIVE. Not the other way around. You must get born “AGAIN” AFTER you die. You are not BORN THE FIRST TIME…YOU ARE BORN “AGAIN”. Note: Jesus was not discussing the flesh in any of this…the phrase “Born Again” is spiritual life, not fleshly life. This shows that you were once Born of God, then you died, so now you must be born “AGAIN”
Yep, we are not born spiritually dead. We die a spiritual death, meaning that we were once ALIVE (Dead to sin), then we die (ALIVE TO SIN). Paul said that at one time to him, SIN WAS DEAD.
I think Jesus would disagree with you, Ed:
“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. “Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ “…John 3:6-7
Is Jesus speaking of being born of the Spirit, rather than the flesh? That should be a rhetorical question. Where does Jesus tell Nicodemus that he had been spiritually alive at abirth, later died spiritually and therefore he must be born spiritually again? Thar sort of language just isn’t in Scripture – anywhere.
I disagree with you, born, and so would Jesus. The word “AGAIN” has significance, and Jesus was NOT discussing the flesh. That answers your question to me. It doesn’t say just the word BORN…but it states born again. The word BORN in the context is not discussing the flesh, either.
When you COUPLE that with Romans 7:7-9 you see that Paul DIED spiritually. So, he must be born AGAIN spiritually to be made ALIVE spiritually.
It’s a spiritual resurrection from the dead.
Now…if you can’t or refuse to see that, then you are just like Nicodemus, when Jesus said to Nicodemus:
“If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?”
I don’t know how you are trying to speak to the subject of this post, but I will say that Paul, like all of us, didn’t at some point “die spiritually” and need to be born again spiritually. We are born spiritually dead and need to be born of the Spirit, having been born of flesh only. That was Jesus’ point to Nicodemus, was it not?
How does the human will (free or freed) apply to your comment?
To understand Paul’s argument in Romans 7:9, one must understand Paul’s overall argument in this section. It is his purpose to show the inability of the law to produce spiritual fruit unto God. The function of the law was rather to manifest a person’s sinfulness in God’s presence. In Paul’s estimation, he was alive until the law manifested his true state in the presence of God. He is not saying that he was not spiritually dead but that in his own estimation he was righteous until the tenth commandment came home to him with force. At that point he began to understand that he was indeed dead in trespasses and sins. You must take the verse out of its clear context to give it the meaning you assign to it.
If you wish to maintain your Pelagian doctrine, you must explain how David was conceived in sin and how the wicked go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies. These are not exceptions to the rule since Paul wrote that we were, prior to conversion, by nature children of wrath JUST LIKE THE REST. This can only mean that every human being is just like every other human being in his alienation from God. If one person is conceived as a sinner in the womb, then every person is conceived as a sinner.
Randy, I already told you that I do not base my beliefs on a philosophy or beliefs of others. That includes the Pelican belief system, as well as the Artesian belief system.
Having said that…we are all born in sin. We are born IN sin, not WITH sin.
I guess you have the word “IN” and “WITH” confused with each other.
Ed, did you reply to the wrong post?
You make no sense whatsoever.
This is good…I like that, “Freed” will
It helps me keep things in focus. 🙂