If you want to see some examples of really bad theology, an assortment of logical fallacies, generally fuzzy thinking, and all-around fundamentalist Christianity & Calvin bashing, go here. It might take a bit of time to load, since there are over 1,000 comments, most of which are completely against anything resembling Reformed theology.
If you stick around there and visit other blog posts, you can find a veritable plethora of judgmentalism against all things Reformed, and just about every prominent evangelical who holds to Christian fundamentalism and/or Reformation theology.
They haven’t blasted The Gideons yet, but after their rant against the ESV, it’s probably coming, since the Gideons are pro-ESV.
Also please know that I am not in any way personally criticizing the individuals who promulgate the aforementioned ‘examples’ of this and that, although I seem to have been completely banned from making any comments whatsoever, even if it’s just a verbatim passage of scripture.
Having said that, if you are interesting in finding a LOT of ‘interesting’ theology, etc., pay a visit. If not, just ignore me. I promise I will not be upset.
The Battle Cry 
In my KJV, the inside cover reads:
“This Bible is placed in memory or honor of a friend or loved one through the Gideon Living Memorial Bible Plan. If you desire to contact Gideons in this area, please consult the local telephone directory.”
The Gideons are not pro ESV. They are pro Bible of many translations. Hello?
Ed
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The Gideons have published for distribution the KJV, the NKJV and are now publishing the ESV. In fact, at their online store there is a full range of ESV Bibles already available for purchase and distribution. I don’t know how that equates to not being pro-ESV. Need a fact checker, Ed? They have never been pro-‘many’ translations for their distribution Bibles. BTW I’m a member of The Gideons.
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I don’t see how you don’t see how that equates to not being pro-ESV, unless you are also saying that they are pro-KJV as well. Are they pro-KJV, as well as pro-ESV? If yes, then they are pro-Bible, regardless of translation.
The KJV is based on a different text than that of the ESV. The ESV is of the works of Westcott & Hort, both of which are extremely questionable characters.
Therefore, I still conclude that the Gideons are not pro-ESV, unless you acknowledge that they are also pro-KJV, which is another way of saying that they are pro-various translations.
We all should acknowledge that the ESV is not equated to the KJV. Not by a long shot. The Original Texts are not the same. You should know that.
Ed
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Conclude whatever you want, Ed. All I said was that the Gideons are pro-ESV, which evidence seems to support. They first published the KJV as their English translatin to distribute, then the NKJV, and now the ESV. What you acknowledge, or what I acknowledge isn’t material to simple facts. Anyhow, I didn’t intend this post to be a discussion about translations the Gideons prefer, but only mentioned them because I hadn’t seen them on the SSB hit list yet.
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You singled out the ESV, and did not make it inclusive until I pointed it out.
Ed, this is Dan.
I left the above part of your comment but deleted the rest so you would know I did not ignore you, but deleted the rest because I’m really not interested in debating who said what and why. You seen to know anyway, so why debate it? The post, in case you missed it was meely to point to a place where a LOT of bad theology, logical fallacies, and fussy thinking can be found all in one place.
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It is an example of what I call “ignorance gone to seed.” `
Sent from my iPad
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It reminded me of ‘one stop shopping’, in terms of the sorts of things I said you could find there.
Friend Ed, a regular there, visited here and only had an inaccurate comment about the Gideons to offer…so far.
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Hey there Born! Good afternoon!
That was an interesting skim. It was a while ago I started reading it, but wow, it’s grown. Some things I agreed with, some, not so much. Oh well. To each his own I suppose.
People believe what they want to believe and of course, whatever ever each of us believes, we think is right…that’s why we believe it! We can discuss, yell, call names all we want, but… I imagine we could throw up any form of Christianity and bash the heck out of it…and even use scripture to do it. Not just “Calvinism” in the lowest common denominator sense of the term….ummm…TULIP is what I mean by that. I’m not including church state, infant baptism, sacramental grace and stuff like that when I talk of “Calvinism”.
How many men, good men on both sides have debated this issue of TULIP and still failed to convince the other side they are right? Seems to me the biggest arguments have to do with election and total depravity.
Is it really sooooo terrible to believe that when the scripture speaks of the elect, predestination, election, Book of LIfe from before the foundation of the world, that it is talking about those who He saves as shown by the person’s faith in Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sin? And that those same people who believe will be perfected and sanctified by God who works in them both to will and to do His good pleasure? Not only that, but that God will work in them to make sure they endure to the end as well…to have eternal life?
As far as depravity, can anyone really deny that total depravity exists in this world? Why else do people do the things they do? What else does dead in trespasses and sin mean? And if dead means dead…I don’t mean to be flippant or cliche like, but the dead can not make themselves live. Are we dead or just mostly dead, like in the Princess Bride? Now, there are some who are known as Neo Calvinists that teach even after a believer is saved, they are still depraved. THAT, I have a huge problem with. They wear it like it’s a badge of honor…I’m the worst sinner I know…look how pius and humble I am by admitting what a horrible worm I am…the worst worm too…no one as bad as me. The scriptures flat out deny these claims when they describe that we are now dead to sin, made alive in Christ, a new creation with a battle raging within us…flesh vs. spirit. If Calvinism teaches that we are depraved even after Jesus Christ has made us alive in Him…then no thanks to that as well, but I’ve not seen that Calvinism teaches that.
Some people hate the idea that God could make people knowing He wasn’t going to save them and they are going to hell. God is only going to save the ones He’s determined to save. I get that. But these same people are okay with God looking down the road in his crystal ball to see if people will accept Him of their own free will, but if He sees that they don’t, He creates them anyway and they go to hell. Or…maybe they think God knows nothing about the future and just…took a chance, rolled the dice so to speak with eternal souls…and if they make it to heaven great, if not…oh well. He made them anyway knowing it was possible that He would have to send them to hell. I just see this one as an argument from emotion and no one is even looking at the fact that God created sinners who He knew would burn in hell. What kind of loving God is that? Seems a loving God wouldn’t create anyone that He knew would end up in hell. I ain’t God though and I know God IS love. At any rate, since that’s not loving, we’ll soften it and say…oh, but it was the person’s choice…God didn’t have anything at all to do with it. Really? He allowed the world to be made didn’t He? He allowed sinners to be born. He allows them to die and go to hell. Don’t tell me it’s any better just cuz it was the sinner’s “choice”. That’s lame if you ask me.
God sends people who don’t believe in His Son to hell. That’s the deal and it’s the final result of not believing whether you take the Armenian view, Calvinistic view…or whatever.
Believe in the One He sent, or you perish.
People can also argue about whether you are good enough to want God or not. Are you dead in trespasses and sin, or mostly dead. I say dead, but if someone wants to think mostly dead, then hey…that’s their burden. That means that it is up to them to have a really good convincing argument and an excellent testimony and life style so they can convince people of the need to receive Jesus and save souls. The burden of saving souls depends on good advertisement that appeals to the lost and that depends on YOU, not God…because remember, God does not interfere with free will. Be able to argue against homosexuality and evolution and you should do just fine right? If that doesn’t work, appeal to self preservation and offer fire insurance and a good life. If your conscience is okay with that…hey, go ahead, I think it’s wrong…but I can’t control how other people think nor do I want to…besides, look how well Rick Warren is doing. That’s how you get church growth. AND DO NOT PRAY for God to change anyone’s will especially when it comes to salvation. He WILL NOT intervene in a person’s free will….you’re prayers are futile. Best to stick to door prizes for Jesus, that will change lives.
As far as the atonement…limited or not and how that works…who cares…in the end, the blood is effective for those who believe. Arminians and Calvinists can agree on that. It’s not something to get all feathered ruffled about.
Can you lose your salvation? Only if we redefine never perish, eternal…those kinds of things. I see no point in arguing about that either. People have the same scriptures I do. It’s not hidden knowledge that you have to be a genius to understand. By that I mean, it’s pretty clear.
Can someone resist the calling of the Holy Spirit…sure, people do it all the time and are not saved. Jesus called everyone to repent. But, tasting is not the same thing as digesting. For those the Father gave to the son however…all will come to Jesus and none will be lost.
Ephesians 1:13-14 “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”
Anyway, I think men in general have taken scripture and tried to make sense out of it. And that’s great, but I don’t think we can deny that scriptural interpretation has been developed over centuries and centuries, and sometimes, not rightly…but we humans like our traditions and we tend to stick with em.
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You bring up some excellent points! I’ve stopped debating about Calvinism for the most part – It usually comes down to what we think about the condition of fallen men so I tend to point to that issue in the Bible and let the word speak, or not. We all have presuppositions, but some of us can still engage in honest intellectual debate and textual criticism. Some of us have trouble getting past our presuppositions. Thanks for stopping by and commenting! It’s always good to hear from you.
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It’s such a fiery issue! The more I learn about it, the less I care. You know why? Cuz I believe that God is sovereign in salvation and will save who He will. Even if you are in a cult, God can deal with it and save you out of it! He can! Isn’t that good news? I don’t believe that people lead others AWAY from Christ. I don’t believe it’s possible. If someone leaves, they were never part of Him to begin with. If someone never comes, they were never going to. But I do believe that nasty christians can make life hell for their brothers and sisters…and God will chasten them if they are really His…He warned us and He promised. The ones who are nasty fake christians, well, they have another fate waiting.
It most definitely comes down to how you see fallen man. All the way dead, or just severely injured. It also has to do with how much God is involved in salvation. Totally, moderately so or not at all. You know, Christ was foreknown…and it wasn’t just that God looked down the road to see if Christ would be willing to die for us…and saw that He said yes to being a sacrifice, so God went along with plan A. What if Christ would have said no, then God would have figured out another way…plan B? I don’t think so. It was planned from eternity.
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I am in agreement with you concerning God’s sovereignty in the salvation of men. The only other possibility, assuming that God exists, is that Christ died for a possibility, not an actuality, The angel did tell Joseph concerning Jesus, “He will save his people from their sins.
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In context, the “His People” was the Jews, as it is stated by Jesus that he is not come but for the House Of Israel.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
There is so much that I could debate you on in regards to your predestination, choose, chose, chosen, elect, and God’s Sovereignty, and faith (you people term it as saving faith). There is not a doubt in my mind that you people are a cult, infiltrating the SBC, and what is even more stupid, is that the SBC is allowing it. You are turning them into a cult. Cults usually dismiss the Jews. Jesus was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. That is his own words. HIS PEOPLE. ALL OF THEM.
Ed
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Ed, It would probably not be ‘open minded’ debate (your mind, not mine). It’s not MY “predestination, choose, chose, chosen, elect, and God’s Sovereignty” Ed, but you already know that if you are biblically literate. Your comments about Reformed thinkers being a cult, etc., are indicative of the mindset that prohibits thoughtful discourse, not to mention demonstrative of one or more logic fallacies.
I do recommend that you consider the “other sheep'” Jesus spoke of in John 10.
I considered not posting the comments of yours that I found waiting this morning, but perhaps they will serve as training ground for serious critical thinkers.
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Ed, you are funny. And after reading your own about page on your website, you are full of yourself as well. You are a self professed controversy seeker who says this:
“But, I seek out the controversies, on purpose, and I study them out. I am not patting myself on the back here, but, I am positive that I know more than most people do in regards to things in the Bible. There are a lot of experts that are Dr. such and such. That doesn’t impress me. They are being taught what to believe based on what someone else believes, based on what someone else believes, based on what someone else believes.
Not me. I am independent. But, not without comparing with others.
I love debating with denominations about topics. I have fun with it, and I do come across arrogant. I don’t mind. I’ve debated several denominations.”
You sound like you have the makings of a cult leader! So tell me Ed, how can you be independent…but not without comparing with others? Makes no sense.
So….tell me Ed, what “denomination” have you debated lately? Can you even debate a denomination???? Isn’t that akin to saying that Hobby Lobby has faith or that Merck has morals? Come on dude. I don’t think a denomination can talk back during your debate, because a denomination is not a person. Are you debating with brick walls and books? So what, would an example of your debate be that you talked to a baptist and all the sudden that’s a debate with the denomination? That would be hard because baptists don’t have a unified doctrine…some are calvinist, some calminian, some arminian, some flat out pelagian…some pre trib dispy, some historical, some preterists, some partial preterists, some amil… must be one heck of a debate!
Forgive me if I have to chuckle and giggle a bit, but you sound like some of my patients who used to say, I looked at drugs.com and I know…makes me chuckle every time I think about stuff like that. Everyone is dumb but not Ed cuz he’s knows more than most do about the Bible. Gold star for Ed eh?
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If nothing else, Ed is definitely convinced and willing to share his convictions!
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I share my convictions because I believe in God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. But depending on who you talk to, there are many different definitions of who they are, what they are, etc. And, there are way too many differences in each and every denomination. Talk about confusion. I want to find out why people believe in what they believe. Why is that important to me? Because we are supposed to be ONE church, not many denominations. There are way too many differences in opinion about salvation. In one church, it’s one thing. In another church, it’s another thing. And so on, and so forth, etc.
And each and every one of them state that they have the truth, while the others are all lies.
Well. Whose truth is more truer? That’s why I seek out controversies on purpose.
Ed
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So Ed, what makes your convictions (or mine) better than someone else’s? You seem to derive yours from what is in your own head and set aside anything anyone else has had to say about some of these issues, then claim what is in your head is THE truth. You’ve done that over and over again, here and elsewhere. You only read the Bible and throw out all of the scholarship that has been done through the ages by those who have mastered the original languages, mastered textual criticism and sound hermeneutics (that’s not me), AND who believe in the triune God as much as you do. You don’t really discuss the scriptural support for the sovereign grace doctrine and why what Reformed thinkers have to say about predestination, election, God’s choosing those whom he would save, and Jesus saying about those God has given him “I give them eternal life and they will NEVER perish” (all IN the Bible). You, like many others, just ply your ‘anti-Calvin cue cards’, and have the nerve to accuse those who believe in sovereign grace because of the teachings they ;would trace to the Apostle Paul and Jesus himself? What’s up with that? You don’t have to answer – this thread started by pointing out an interesting site where many examples of bad theology, logical fallacies, and fuzzy, irrational thinking can be found all in one place.
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As Ed should be! We need all the good Bible experts we can get and Ed says he knows more about the Bible than most…I ain’t no expert, but if I was, I’d be convinced and willing to share too.
Apparently reading it myself hasn’t done much good. Infact, the more I read, the less I know…the less black and white and more gray things become. I feel really stupid when I read the Bible actually…infact, usually I just walk away with the idea that it was a darn good thing that Jesus was crucified for our sins, otherwise, nothing good is coming for any of us…He really is the only way. Sometimes I walk away with other things too, but the main one is that I am really thankful that God provided a remedy for my sin.
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You bet that I am full of myself. I only wish people would stop using the Calvin cue cards and study for themselves. Calvinism is full of catch phrases, pet bible translation, and Romans 8 and 9, as well as Romans 5, leaving out verse 13, and Ephesians. Other than that, I hardly see real meat coming from Calvinists.
But if all you read was my about, then there is tons more that you missed.
Get down with the college ruled paper and pen and coffee and up late with that “good book” alone, and you will see the meat, the spiritual stuff that Calvinists never will see with their carnal exegesis.
Ed
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I know this comment is in in answer to Dawnmarie, but I can’t help myself. You wish people would stop using Calvin cue cards and study for themselves? Give thinking people a break! You dis everyone and everything outside of your own mind and accuse others who just might have studied outside of the Bible to avail themselves of others’ life times of scholarship of playing ‘Calvin cue cards’? Do you realize how silly and irrational that is? I for one, have come to certain conclusions about sovereign grace doctrine using first of all, YOUR method of the Bible ‘first’, but have also studied a bit from the works of others (alive and dead) concerning these things. My mind is not yet pure and subject to error, unlike yuours. Calvin need have nothing to do with the discussion, yet you lay the blame at his dead feet, ever and always.
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Yes, I’ve heard that Christ died to make it possible for men to be saved. I guess that would mean that everyone’s name is written in the book of life from before the foundation of the world, born good…with a clean slate, and all starting out saved, but one by one our names get blotted out depending on whether we believe or not…if we believe, it stays, if not, it gets blotted out? Is that how it would go?
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Has it ever occured that some are not lost to begin with, not needing saved? I do no believe in original sin. We die a spiritual death. We are not born spiritually dead. That death is as a result of Knowledge of Good and Evil. We all die a natural death based on Adam’s transgression, but spiritual death is once we get knowledge.
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Ed, I would ask for scriptural support for that, it would mean abortion, infanticide, and the murder of ‘innocent’ children are noble endeavors because they ensure eternal life for the victims. Not going to get into all of the scripture – you have already been provided it and I don’t need the practice right now. I do however, recommend reading Ephesians, Chapter 2. Ask yourself: What does it mean to be ‘by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind’?. You need not answer here. Perhaps others might want to engage you in discussion, but I don’t have the time or inclination right now.
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“Has it ever occured that some are not lost to begin with, not needing saved?”
Yes, that has occured to many and can not be found in the scriptures.
” I do no believe in original sin. We die a spiritual death. We are not born spiritually dead. That death is as a result of Knowledge of Good and Evil. We all die a natural death based on Adam’s transgression, but spiritual death is once we get knowledge.”
I do not believe in original sin either Ed, as in I believe everyone dies for their own sins. When Adam disobeyed, the result was spiritual death and physical death. Human nature changed. All who came after Adam not only reaped the consequences of physical death, but they also have to deal with the consequences of spiritual change in our nature or spiritual death. What we do have the story of the garden: Adam sins, all humanity is removed from the tree of life and the direct presence of God, and so all of humanity will die and sin. Physical death is his biological nature and destiny; the other is his spiritual nature–that all humans WILL sin, no exceptions. All need to be saved.
As far as debating election and what not…who cares.
You could definitely look at the elect as meaning only genetic Israel, but what does that matter? Eventually those genetically elect who don’t believe are cut off and those gentiles who do believe are grafted in. Being genetically elect gets you no where. Belief is what makes you part of the remnant. Believing gentiles are grafted into that tree and are elect as well according to Ephesians 1:4 for example. So let’s say that elect just means Israel…so that would mean that within the elect, there is a subset…the remnant, that is made up of both believing genetic Israelites and believing gentiles as well. So maybe not all elect will be saved, but all saved are elect. It still doesn’t matter to me because the saved end up being elect no matter how you look at it because they become part of the elect people, the true Israel. They are grafted into the olive tree while the unbelieving “elect” are cut out, yet able to be grafted back in if they believe.
I guess you could use the example of the visible church…you could call the church congregation itself, as a whole, elect, just meaning that you learn about the secrets of salvation from a people who teach and believe it as a whole, but we know that not all of those in the visible church are saved. The saved would be a remnant of the elect…but not all the elect would be part of the remnant.
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Oh, yes it can be found in scripture. You just haven’t bothered to really dig in and find it. Calvin cue cards will never reveal it.
Ed
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Was thinking about the idea that some are not lost to begin with, not needing saving. And then thinking about Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
To be created “in sin” and “in iniquity” is to be created “as a sinner.” We are sinners by nature and that starts in the womb. Any child that lives long enough will sin because that’s what we do. Like a baby tiger…so helpless when it’s born…but when it grows up, it kills because that’s just what tigers do. We sin because that’s what we do. The nature doesn’t go away either, but God puts His spirit in us so we can fight it.
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I’ve heard Ed’s explanation………
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There is this athiest, oh…what is his name….Harris. Sam Harris. Anyway, he has this lecture on the Illusion of Free Will. Science is even beginning to question free will. Harris states that it is difficult to think about law, politics, religion, public policy, intimate relationships, morality-as well as feelings of remorse or personal achievement-without first imagining that every person is the true source of his or her thoughts and actions. And yet, the facts tell us that free will is an illusion. I thought it was an excellent lecture (of course, keeping in mind this is an athiest).
Here’s that link if your interested. I know you talk with athiests, so this might be an interesting topic for you all to discuss… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCofmZlC72g
What I thought was most interesting with his talk is that he thinks that crushing the idea of free will will crush Christianity. He’s so wrong.
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I remember reading something about Sam Harris and free will. I’ll have to check out that lilnk.
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You might have seen it. I had it on my blog a while back, but was just listening to it again yesterday.
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Ed, since you can’t take a hint (I’m not getting into something that was not intended in this post) don’t be too surprised or upset that I don’t post your comments.
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You made it part of the post, I didn’t. Take responsibility. It was your words. If you wish to revise your own post, then please remove any discussion about the ESV, altogether.
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No Ed, I don’t need to revise anything. I stated that The Gideons are now publishing ESV Bibles for distribution, which is a fact which would mean that they are pro-ESV, which you seem to have issues with it. I didn’t start a ‘discussion’, only stated a fact and an inescapable conclusion for anyone with half a brain. Sorry to sound harsh.
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There’s only so much craziness one can take at night reading online…
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True
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Slimjim, You ain’t kiddin! I read some more last night and found out that I was for all intents and purposes a heretic, deceived, leading people to hell, a most likely not saved…so many things I learned about myself last night.
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Well, it is my conclusion. I was never a Catholic, but it seems to me that reform was based on Catholics not wanting to be Catholic anymore. Well, if the transition is done, Reform is supposed to be over. But, I have heard that you guys are always reforming. To me, that means that you haven’t gotten it right yet.
But, if Catholics didn’t like being Catholic, then I would have presumed that they would have ditched everything that the Catholics believed. But they didn’t. They, as well as the Catholics adhere to much of Augustine. That tells me that you should have remained Catholic.
Look, in the SBC, there is a takeover happening with the Calvinists taking over the SBC. As a whole, there is still debate about babies going to hell. After all these years, there is still debate about that? No one has figured it out yet? Some say, yes, some say no, some don’t know. Some say that the Bible is silent about the matter, while others state that it is not silent. Are you kidding me? WHY do they not know? Why the guessing games?
All they are worried about is what “Joe Schmuckatelli” said, or what Joe Blow wrote a book about, or what Augustine said, or what Calvin said…..WHAT? WHY? How is it that no one is consulting the Bible? I don’t get it?
Oh, I do get it…it’s the Calvin cue cards. I hear you people say Bible alone…but it isn’t Bible at all. It’s philosophy on what others say. COME ON GUYS.
Ed
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Ed, that’s another fine example of really messy thinking, which is a large part of my point in this post! Thanks!
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Ed, do you KNOW if babies go to heaven? I personally think they do…same as anyone else saved by grace. No, they can’t believe, but God can still show grace. Does that mean we should abort babies. Absolutely not…it just means that God is merciful. Now, I can’t prove my idea…and whatever you believe, you can’t prove either. Neither can the one who says some babies go to hell. Do you KNOW which view of eschatology is right? Do you KNOW if smoking weed is wrong? Do you KNOW if the sign gifts still exist? Do you KNOW if you can lose your salvation. Do you KNOW if we have a young or an old earth? Do you KNOW if Genesis 6 is a story about bad women and good men or if it’s a story of fallen angels and women….
The fact is that we can’t prove alot of our thinking from scripture. We can extrapolate and reason, but we can’t prove. We were not there, we don’t think like an ancient Israelite. We don’t KNOW anything but what scripture is completely clear on.
I was never catholic, never been reformed, and I don’t hold to any denominational tradition, but I don’t believe I have it all figured out while everyone else is just a bunch of deceived morons either.
As far as calvinists taking over the SBC? And? The SBC lets people believe what they want…the conscience. No one is forcing anyone to embrace “calvinism”. And if you are foced to embrace anything…and it goes against your conscience, you leave. Period. Damn the consequences. Who cares.
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I can’t stand the skinny boxes, so answering Ed down here.
Ed, you said:
You bet that I am full of myself. I only wish people would stop using the Calvin cue cards and study for themselves. Calvinism is full of catch phrases, pet bible translation, and Romans 8 and 9, as well as Romans 5, leaving out verse 13, and Ephesians. Other than that, I hardly see real meat coming from Calvinists.
But if all you read was my about, then there is tons more that you missed.
Get down with the college ruled paper and pen and coffee and up late with that “good book” alone, and you will see the meat, the spiritual stuff that Calvinists never will see with their carnal exegesis.
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Okay, so now that the comment is pasted and I can see it…
Ed, being full of yourself is nothing to be proud of. lololol. I made a joke! Get it, full of yourself…proud of. Giggle.
Seriously though…Ed, what makes you think that others have not done as you have suggested?
Look, I went to your site to find some sort of explanation for why you believe as you do. Some sort of detailed explanation with a rebuttal of each point in TULIP with some sort of scripture references and explanation…And guess what? It’s not there. Anytime you speak of what you call “calvinism”…it’s just editorial opinion. How does that help? If you want to teach, then teach…but that’s not what you are doing Ed.
Teaching…includes demonstrating why something is true or better than something else. Why something is truth and something else isn’t, or why something is the best way to think about whatever it you are teaching rather than other ideas. You have to back up what you say with some sort of evidence and if that’s not gonna happen, what’s the point? You’re just another discernment blog with nothing but opinion. I hate calvinists. Well…good, why? I mean, I think it’s great that you are convinced. Whatever we do we are to be convinced. I’m a serious believer in that…but being convinced of something doesn’t mean you understand everything. You might be too convinced of something that’s not true.
When people start telling others that THEY know more than most, that is a big red flag. Sorry Ed. I’ve spent my life teaching grad and post grads…and a lot of that unfortunately involves knocking people off their high horse. Not in a mean way, but just showing people that things aren’t always what they think they are. Seems the people who know the least are the ones who are the most proud of themselves…to start anyway. As they learn more, usually they start understanding that the more they learn, the less they know. I used to be absolutely convinced of my ways and thoughts….well, I’m not anymore. LIke I told Born above, the more I read, the more I learn, the stupider I become. Things turn gray.
On your blog you say you started looking into Calvinism because of spiritual abuse stuff. Ed, this abuse you speak of goes on in arminian churches too. It goes on everywhere because man is depraved. Spiritual abuse goes on because man is depraved…and for the life of me, I don’t understand why people are so hooked on church and religion that they are willing to not only attend but financially support these ministries. However, you can’t just blame abusive teachers…they would have a following if people would quit supporting them…so the fault lies on multiple parties. Again, not just calvinists….others as well.
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“they would have a following if people would quit supporting them”
Sorry, that should say that “they would NOT have a following if people would quit supporting them”.
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