Category Archives: Prophecy

Famine in the Land

Posted by Dan C. on

Amos 8_11

Amos was a shepherd and a fruit picker from the Judean village of Tekoa that God called to prophesy judgment – doom and captivity for Israel followed by eventual restoration. The sins for which Amos chastens the people are extensive: neglect of God’s Word, idolatry, pagan worship, greed, corrupted leadership, and oppression of the poor.

That passage is a striking reminder that although God’s judgment against the sins of Israel would be severe, there would be another severe famine in the land. God would become silent and there would also be a famine of “hearing of the word of the Lord” – prophetic silence in the most troubling times.

I am so thankful that we have the written Word of God passed down through the centuries ensuring there would never again be a famine of hearing the Word of the Lord.

At the same time, is there a famine of “hearing the Word of the Lord” when the message of the cross of Christ we preach minimizes the seriousness of sin and God’s wrath against it while promises of health, wealth, prosperity and God’s wonderful plans for us take center stage?

Food for Thought

Be Blessed!

More Interesting Preterist Questions

Posted by Dan C. on

Here’s the first of two questions posed in a full preterist FB group I visit on occasion. Like ithers I have discussed here, it’s a ‘leading’ question, in that it is the type of question that prompts a respondent towards providing an already-determined answer. In this case, the predetermined answer is that genuine Christians do not ‘need’ to be raised bodily since we have already been raised spiritually and have received life in Christ Jesus. A corroborating passage of scripture is offered as ‘proof’ of the presupposition driving the question. Here is the FB question:

“If believers already have His life, already been raised with Him from the dead, in the likeness of His resurrection and having the resurrection and the life, Jesus Christ Himself, what need is there then there for a physical body resurrected from the grave when believers have already bourne the image of the earthy, the natural, the physical, the temporal but we are to bear the image of the heavenly, the spiritual, the eternal? You know as Paul wrote how flesh and blood did not inherit the kingdom?” (1 Cor 15:50 – I cited the reference the reference since the post author must have inadvertently omitted it.)

I call it a leading question because it was posed by a full preterist whose mission in life seems to be trying to convince others that full preterism (ALL biblical prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D.) is God’s truth. Period.

Here is my initial response:

“I don’t think it’s a question of NEEDING a bodily resurrection, but it’s a question of what has been promised that we will receive one. We agree that we, as believers have been spiritually resurrected to new life in Christ. The term ‘resurrection’ in the Bible seems to always refer to a bodily resurrection. Not a single reference to the resurrection of believers tells us it will only be spiritual. Jesus was raised bodily and so will we. It’s a promise easily checked out. Your reference to 1Co 15:50 “I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.” simply means that the current physical bodies in which we are encased are not worthy of inheriting the kingdom. I could present you with a multitude of irrefutable scriptures pointing to the believer’s bodily resurrection, but I need to head for a local hospital for an iron infusion procedure right now.”

I got into trouble once again with the ladies who are admins for the Group (Pauline Doctrine). My mistake was not providing any specific verses to back up my claim that there was “irrefutable scriptures” pointing to the bodily resurrection of believers.

The second question was the Following:

“O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” Romans 7: 24 kjv

“What was the body of this death?”

My response to that one was:

Obviously, from the context, Paul is contrasting the law of God in the heart and mind of a believer with the law of sin and death in our mortal bodies:

Rom 7:22-25 “For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.”

Paul speaks of the inner conflict between two “laws” every believer faces. Some tell us that he was talking about his pre-conversion life, but the context states otherwise. I’ve talked about the conflict and the resolution to the conflict in “hunting dog” terms. If I own 2 hunting dogs, The one I love the most and take care of will perform the best during a hunt. I think the bigger question might be “How do we resolve the inner conflict?” The answer I suggest is feed and nourish our “new” creation in Christ Jesus.

Naturally, I got in trouble once more, I assume for not providing the post author’s desired response the initial question. I thought that by providing the context of the quoted passage would explain it quite clearly. My intent was to let the reader examine the passage given in context and let God speak to them directly.

Well, what followed was a barrage of responses excoriating me for NOT providing my personal opinion, but scripture itself (which I vainly tried to explain as politely as I could). The final response I received from one member of the admins was in part:

“… the original intended audience (the readers of the original post) should be allowed the relevancy FIRST”.

I guess I stuck my foot in it when I responded:

“That sounds like “opinion first” and context later, if at all. Did you forget about the actual ‘Context”? You did talk about comparing with other scripture. I would recommend placing a single passage into its own context first and then comparing it with other scripture, with the let what is clear interpret what is less clear.”

To make a much longer story short, I’ve been banned/blocked once again. I’ve also found out that others have faced the same fate, and probably for the same reason – daring to disagree or not responding with the ‘right’ answer to a leading question. From now on I’ll probably stop by that FB Group on occasion to see what preterist doctrine the admin ladies are pushing, but keep my mouth shut.

I think my “Preterism” library is now quite complete. My final question had to do with what a 70 A.D. completion of all Biblical prophecy meant for today’s believers. In an article published by Ligonier Ministries I found this comment:

“One theologian sums up the full preterist position like this: “The coming of Christ in judgment was fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, Satan and Antichrist have [already] been thrown into the lake of fire, the kingdom of God has arrived, the resurrection is understood in spiritual terms, the Great Commission has been fulfilled, all things have been made new (the old heaven and earth have passed away; the new heaven and earth have come), the promised restoration has arrived, and the world now continues as it is ad infinitum.”[i]

According to the preterist, the “new heavens and new earth” spoken of in Revelation 21:1 is, to the preterist, a description of the world under the New Covenant. Forget about the “new earth” being a re-creation of this earth as God originally intended. We are already in it, with all of its “mess”. We can, however continue to share the gospel with the lost world around us and help others find Christ and an eternal spiritual resurrection, but there is no future bodily resurrection of believers in full preterism.

And that’s all, folks!

As an epilogue to my little “adventure into preterism”, I did find an article that explained the behavior of preterists to the proverbial “T”, at least as I have experienced it:

“Preterism, like all systems that can be characterized as being taken up by ideologues, is a system that is based on deductive reasoning that then requires all the particulars to be forced into the deductive system despite how the particulars may testify against the deductive system. Preterism, will not allow any contrary evidence from particular texts of Scripture because Preterism has as straight-jacket template that requires all to fit the system. Preterism, is a procrustean bed that will take texts and force them to fit their system. To the Preterist hammer all the eschatolgical texts are nails.

What the above paragraph means then is that having a conversation with a Preterist on this subject can be excruciatingly difficult because for them this is not just about eschatology. Indeed, for them Preterism is their whole weltanschauung (worldview).”[ii]

[i] Preterism | Ligonier Ministries

[ii] Continuing with the Problems of Full Preterism

Be Blessed!

Another Bad Question?

Posted by Dan C. on

image

Well, I’ve had another opportunity to analyze an ‘interesting’ question posed from a preterist (all biblical prophecy has been fulfilled) perspective. Let’s jump in.

First of all, we need to put Daniel 12:7 back into the context of Daniel, chapter 12.

The Great Unveiling: Divine Revelations and Eternal Promises

In Daniel 12, we are reminded that no matter how difficult or tumultuous our circumstances may be, God’s protection and promises remain constant. We are also called to seek wisdom and understanding in the face of mystery, reminding us that, ultimately, our quest for knowledge is a divine journey.

Verses 1-4: The Time of Distress and the Promise of Resurrection

These verses describe a time of unparalleled distress that will occur at the end of days. Yet, in this time of strife, Michael, the great prince, will stand to protect Daniel’s people. It also mentions a resurrection, where those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awaken, some to everlasting life and others to everlasting contempt.

Verses 5-7: The Sealed Prophecy

Here, Daniel sees two beings, one on each side of the river, asking the man clothed in linen about when the astonishing events will occur. The man, raising his hands to the heavens, swears by the eternal God that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and when the power of the holy people has been shattered, all these events will be completed.

Verses 8-13: The Duration of the End Times

Daniel, not understanding, asks for clarification. The man, however, tells him that the words are sealed until the time of the end. He describes that the wicked will not understand, but the wise will, and puts forth times and durations to signify the end, blessing those who wait and reach the 1335 days. Finally, Daniel is told to go his way until the end, for he will rest and then rise again for his allotted inheritance at the end of days.

Daniel 12, the concluding chapter of the Book of Daniel, continues and finalizes the long-range prophecy given to Daniel by an angel. In this captivating finale, Daniel receives revelations of the end times, including a period of unmatched distress, the promise of resurrection and judgment, and the sealing of these prophecies until the end time.[i]

First of all, I have no idea exactly why Daniel said what he said in Daniel, Chapter 12. All I know for sure is that an angel (some say Gabriel) spoke to Daniel, that Daniel wrote down what the angel told him, and that Daniel asked for clarification (v. 8), but the angel clarified exactly nothing and told Daniel to go about his way.

Furthermore, I’m not sure Daniel understood what the angel told him either, because he asked for clarification:

“I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, “O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?” (v. 8)

The angel then told Daniel:

“He (the angel) said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.” (v.9)

Let’s move on to what the angel said about the fulfillment of prophecy: “when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished.” (v. 7)

Note that the above meme claims that “the shattering of the power of the holy people” occurred with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. We are to automatically accept that assertion as fact and move on. That’s where my research became interesting. I consulted and recorded information found in nearly a dozen commentaries and found references to a repeated pattern of persecution and the scattering of God’s people at three different specific times:

  • Antiochus Epiphanes’ destruction of Jerusalem in 168 B.C.
  • Rome’s destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
  • The Antichrist’s persecution of Christians in New Testament times, prior to Jesus’ second coming in judgment.

One commentary offered an excellent summary of those periods:

Although Daniel’s understanding had been helped by the interpreting angel, the visions and revelations that God gave him had more significance than he may have realized. Their symbolic meaning extended beyond the period of conflict that followed the Jews’ return from Babylon. The terrible suffering under Antiochus, though it was the last great persecution of the Jews before the coming of the Messiah, was by no means the end of their troubles.

When the Messiah came, the Jewish people as a whole rejected him and brought upon themselves, at the hands of Rome, greater suffering than they had ever experienced before (cf. 7:23-25). Jesus more than once connected the Jews’ rejection of him with the ‘desolating abomination’ and ‘awful horror’ of the Romans’ destruction of Jerusalem (Matthew 21:37-41; Matthew 23:37-38; Matthew 24:15-22,Matthew 24:32-33; Luke 21:20-24; Luke 23:28-31).

Many years after the destruction of Jerusalem, John wrote of the persecution of God’s people, using symbolism that again was taken from the book of Daniel (Revelation 11:1-3; Revelation 12:6-7,Revelation 12:14; Revelation 13:1-12; Revelation 17:8-14). An anti-God spirit had motivated the persecutors of the Jews in Old Testament times, and now the same anti-God spirit was motivating the persecutors of Christians in New Testament times. The anti-God spirit was now specifically anti-Christ. This spirit is always hostile to God and his people (1 John 2:18), and will have its fullest expression in the antichrist who will appear at the end of the age and who will be destroyed by Christ at his coming (2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; Revelation 19:20).

Whatever the era and whoever the antichrist, the message for God’s people is always one of encouragement: ‘he who endures to the end shall be saved’ (Daniel 12:12; Matthew 24:13; 2 Timothy 2:11-12; 2 Timothy 2:11-12; Revelation 12:11; Revelation 13:10; Revelation 20:4). In the end all the powers of this world must give way to the rule of God, whose people inherit his eternal kingdom (Daniel 7:27; Matthew 25:34; Revelation 11:15; Revelation 19:1-8).[ii]

Back to the meme for a just a couple more comments. The shattering of the power of the holy people is equated with “their (Israel’s) old mode of covenantal existence”, which was of course in 70 A.D., when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Roman armies. Disregarding the claim that Israel’s old covenant existence ended in 70 A.D., the more significant question is “When did the Old Covenant with God’s people end and the New Covenant begin?” Two primary passages give us the answer to that question.

Jesus, when he last dined with his disciples told them:

“Luke 22:20b  “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.”  (See also Matt 26:28 & Mark 14:24)

Then, on the cross at Calvary, when the sinless Savior, having fulfilled all the righteous requirements of the law, with his final Jesus declared:

“It is finished” (John 19:30).

____________________________

Once again, I’ve had the opportunity to analyze another questionable meme sourced from a full preterist site (ASiteForTheLord.com). You probably won’t find the FB meme at the site (at least I couldn’t), however you can certainly purchase some books and download a free PDF called Fulfilled Eschatology from the homepage, as well as a concise one page summary on the End Times Topics page. ASiteForTheLord memes keep popping up on a couple of sites I visit. I read somewhere that preterists can be really clever at seducing younger believers who are not yet biblically well read into accepting their beliefs. This was just another example.

[i] https://biblehub.com/chaptersummaries/daniel/12.htm

[ii] https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/commentaries/bbc/daniel-12.php

The Bride of Christ and the Body of Christ

Posted by Dan C. on

Just another FB conversation…………

clip_image002_thumb2From a Facebook post:clip_image004_thumb8

“Never once in the King James Bible do we find the term, “the Bride of Christ.” That is a religious term, and frankly, it is a core doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. Furthermore, never once does the Bible refer to the Church the Body of Christ as “the Bride of Christ.” This should indicate to us that it is nothing more than a man-made concept, a tradition of men, aimed at deceiving and robbing us of the clarity of God’s Word, and furthering a man-made theological system. “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ” (Colossians 2:8).

We do find in our King James Bible the following phrases and terms: “the marriage supper of the Lamb” (Revelation 19:7,9), “the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband” (Revelation 21:2), and “the Lamb’s wife” (Revelation 21:9). A marriage is certainly occurring in the closing chapters of the book of the Revelation, but who is marrying whom? We should not rip these verses out of their contexts and fabricate the identity of the bride and the groom (unless, of course, we seek to advance a denominational system rather than the simple teachings of Scripture!).”

Reader (Dan) Response:

So what is your exact point in all of that? You must have said it for a reason. We should never take passages out of their natural context, however given the many scripture passages with references to Christ and his Bride, it’s undeniable that Christ has a Bride. Eph 5:25-27 clearly identifies Christ’s bride as the church (called out body of all believers).

You said: “We should not rip these verses out of their contexts and fabricate the identity of the bride and the groom (unless, of course, we seek to advance a denominational system rather than the simple teachings of Scripture!).

The identity of Christ and His bride are CLEARLY defined in scripture, so again, what is your point?

NEVER MIND………….I just read that the purpose of this group is “TO PERSUADE BELIEVERS TO RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH…Persuade – to cause someone to do or believe by ‘reasoning’. Your point has to do with Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, and it begin with a gross misrepresentation of 2 Tim 2:15, literally “ripping it out of its context”.

Author Response:

Then why are you here Dan. Best you find a suitable group to join, instead of coming in here with your insults. If you believe the body of Christ is the Bride of Christ then you believe in Replacement Theology which is a damnable heresy.

Reader (Dan) Response:

First of all, I am NOT defending a personal opinion. I’m trying to get clarity. It wasn’t until some months ago that I first learned about Mid-Acts Dispensationalism and its definition of “Rightly dividing the word of truth.” I am not attacking M.A.D. doctrine nor defending it. I am however comparing its teachings with I believe the Bible teaches.

Concerning your statement, “If you believe the body of Christ is the Bride of Christ then you believe in Replacement Theology which is a damnable heresy.”:

Heresy is a strong word and one that I use sparingly. Replacement theology is the belief that the church has replaced the church in God’s plan. At best it’s just wrong and at worst it’s heresy, in my opinion, no matter who teaches it or believes it. God still has a plan for Israel.

I understand, from what seems to be plain in scripture, that the terms Body of Christ and Bride of Christ describe two aspects of the relationship between Jesus and His followers. Perhaps the clearest expression of the church as both the body and bride of Christ is in Paul’s own words:

“Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church.” (Eph 5:25-29)

That marriage metaphor also appears in Jesus’ own words:

“In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.” (John 14:2-3)

However, M.A.D. doctrine tells us that Jesus was only speaking to the Jews and not to us Gentiles, which could support only Israel being the Bride. Or can it?

Back to Ephesus. It’s significant that when Paul visited Ephesus, he spent three months teaching in a synagogue in an effort to bring the Jews to accept union with the gentiles in Christianity, but without success. For the next two years he stayed in Ephesus seeking to convert Jews and gentiles and appears to have made many converts. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that, in his letter to the Ephesian church, he was speaking to both Jewish and Gentile believers.

The mystery of the gospel, revealed to Paul, along with the holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit (v.5), is summed up in Eph 3:6:

“That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.”

Paul was telling his Ephesian audience that right then and there, when He wrote that letter (60-61 A.D.), and from that day forward, Jews and Gentiles are one body, united in Christ.

Dan’s Conclusion: The church, the Body of Christ, which is composed of all of Jesus’ followers, will also the Bride of Christ at the marriage supper of the Lamb.

NOTE: I am not trying to convince anyone of anything; you will believe what you believe. My only goal here is to have clearly explained what I believe and why I believe it. When it comes to spiritual matters, the Holy Spirit is the grand persuader.

Have a nice day!

What blew me away was the insistence that believing that Christ is the Bride of Christ meant that I believed in Replacement theology, until I realized that M.A.D. doctrine was humming in the background. I used the KJV because it’s the only version some will even consider as a valid version. I guess I’m still trying to find at least one M.A.D. type who might be open to honest impartial, objective discussion. I’m batting .000 so far. Sadly I am adding preterists and KJV Only types to the list of those whose minds seem to be ‘rusted shut’. I know that sounds harsh, but it’s true. I’m getting better at just trying to talk things through………I hope.

Thoughts?