Columbo Apologetics #1

Posted by Dan C. on

This is about a Facebook conversation I’m having.

ORIGINAL POST:

FAITH ALONE………...

“But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.” What a switch! Jews saved like Gentiles, not Gentiles like Jews? Amazing! Acts 15:11……

Paul’s gospel became the only gospel without water baptism or any works…

He reminded the Galatians how he had received his gospel: directly from the Lord Himself (Galatians 1.11-12), not from the Twelve or anyone else (Galatians 1.15-17)……………..Acts 9… (Acts 15.11). From that point onward, Jews had to be saved like Paul’s Gentiles…..only Paul’s gospel was valid (cf. Galatians 1.6-9).”

RESPONSE:

“You said “from that point forward” Jews had to be saved like Paul’s Gentiles. What about Romans 4, in which we are told that Abraham’s faith was imputed to him as righteousness. Doesn’t that strongly and clearly state that salvation has always been by grace through faith? Just an honest question.”“You said “from that point forward” Jews had to be saved like Paul’s Gentiles. What about Romans 4, in which we are told that Abraham’s faith was imputed to him as righteousness. Doesn’t that strongly and clearly state that salvation has always been by grace through faith? Just an honest question.”

Additional Comments:

The original FB post proposes that at one time there was a one gospel for the Jews (Law), and a different one for Gentiles (grace through faith). That time period is represented in Scripture by the entire Old Testament, as well as every book in the New Testament outside of Acts 9:28 as well as Romans through Philemon (Paul’s Epistles). Acts 9:28 through Philemon was intended specifically for Gentiles and the remainder of the Bible speaks only to the Nation of Israel. You can imagine the implications of that.

The group of people, which seems to be growing these days, is composed of those who claim that the KJV is their ONLY authority for the doctrine(s) they teach. They teach a form of dispensationalism called ultra, or hyper-dispensationalism (HD). Notable classic dispensationalists label it as everything from “nonsense” to “heresy.”

I’ve been trying (to no avail) to come up with ways to have a rational conversation with them. My last recourse is to merely (and politely) ask questions based on the text of scripture that would clearly refute their doctrine(s). Thus, this blog post. At the end of the day, I might just end up with a list of questions for HD’s that could be used as a method of apologetics I like to Apologetics à la Columbo (the popular rumpled T.V. detective of years gone by). I’ve been asked not to visit the Gospel of Grace public FB group. I have not yet been banned, but that might be coming.

I’ll return to this post to add new FB responses or comments, if there are any.

Be Blessed!

14 responses to “Columbo Apologetics #1”

  1. Well, I already received a reply to my first response (shown above). He didn’t answer my question concerning Romans 4, in which Paul teaches that Abraham was justified by faith, so I repeated my question. Merely restating HD doctrine and NOT answering direct questions with passages that contradict that doctrine seems to be par for the course. More to follow?

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  2. I did get another response, that lwt me ask more questions: The response, in part was “As a result of Paul’s gospel, no difference exists between Jew and Gentile in Christ (Galatians… 3.28). This was not true before Paul.”

    So my reply to that was:

    “Was Abraham “before Paul?” He did say in Romans 4:3, “For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it WAS counted unto him for righteousness. That seems to mean that no difference existed between the salvation of Jews and Gentiles either in OT testament times or in when Paul preached. Doesn’t your doctrine teach that there were two completely different gospels for Jews and Gentiles? Isn’t Paul saying in Romans 4 that there has always been one gospel for both Jews and Gentiles?”

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  3. Hi Dan. I’ll still watch a rerun of the Columbo series every now and then. It was one of my favorites back in the day.

    Thanks for sharing this “conversation” with us. I have not heard of HD doctrine but it sure sounds pretty messed up. Like you noted, the implications are unacceptable. I think what you are doing is great and I encourage you to continue to respond to any of their comments. These people need people like you to help them to see something pretty obvious. Just do what you can and you’ll have to decide when to stop the conversation eventually if they never budge.
    I will be curious to see any further replies.

    Hope all is well.

    God’s blessings…

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    • If even one of them would wake up realize that although they claim to ONLY listen to the KJV they are listening to the ravings of a 19th century bloke who thought he knew it all, it would be progress.

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  4. It’s getting good. I was just told “different gospels for for Jews and Gentiles culminating in one gospel –Paul’s……. …..THE NEW DISPENSATION OF GRACE ……………
    Acts 9… (Acts 15.11). From the end of (Acts 15.11)”, to which I responded with more questions:

    “So Abraham was under a gospel of works until Paul said otherwise? Again, didn’t Paul say that Abraham WAS JUSTIFIED by faith (past tense)? Are you telling me that Abraham was under one gospel until Paul, but is NOW justified by faith?, since God revealed to him the mystery? I’m not arguing, but just asking questions because of the words in the pages of the KJV.”

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  5. I find it impossible to talk with anyone following Grace Ambassadors/Justin Johnson. It is irrational and when you try to be civil, they are uncivil. When I talk with the Mid-Acts/hyperdispensationals it’s liking talking to Mormons who are only trying to recruit you and it’s the same talking points over and over again.

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      • Hi Dan.

        It is August 11th, 2023, and I am back to ask a few questions and to make a couple of statements.

        According to this source (Which you shared on June 11th I think, Dan):

        https://www.gotquestions.org/hyper-grace.html

        “Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people.”

        So, Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all our sins have already been forgiven? When God looks at us, He sees only righteous and holy people?

        My understanding of scripture tells me two things: I am a miserable sinner and that apart from God I can do nothing.

        Here is another quote from the same source:

        “The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching…”

        If we are not bound by the teachings of Jesus, what are we bound by?

        Are we supposed to be bound by the words of Justin Johnson in:

        “A GLIMPSE AT HOW WE GOT HERE – “?

        In just one statement in that treatise, Johnson states:

        “’Historical Christianity’ does not have a solid consensus.”

        I agree with you, Dan, that this is not even close to the truth. In fact, I agree with you in the article from 2015 that you sent to me in my Gmail where you summed up Johnson’s words as being big:

        “RED FLAG(s)!” and “CULT indicator(s)”

        I know I’ve just addressed the tip of the iceberg, but I’ll conclude with this. It comes from your same Gmail:

        “The LIE always rides in on the horseback of truth.”

        I think I may just have to go a bit further with:

        “The lies always ride in with a team of horses wearing saddlebags filled to the brim with lollypops.”

        God’s blessings…

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            • I’m not sure how I messed that up, but at least I found my error. I replied directly to th email notice of your comment. The notice of your last comment in my email had a system generated set of links I should check out at your site. Since I had never heard of Moral Orel, I headed over to the post and read it along with a lot of the comments. In the comments I was struck by a couple of comments by someone named Joseph, who called you deluded and pointed out your deficiencies in a very judgmental fashion while accusing you of being judgmental. I can identify with that sort of person; I’ve been accused of things and inadequacies my accuser could have only known if he was inside my head and my life, like not even reading my Bible. I think that’s called ‘projection’? It happens a lot. Keep the faith and keep writing. I’m a bit amazed at your polite patience and kindness with those I would probably not so gracious toward!

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              • Thank you for your kind words about patience and kindness, Dan.

                I guess those are things that come from the fruits of the spirit which come from the Holy Spirit.

                I wouldn’t be concerned about any mess ups. I mess up all the time.

                I’m glad you had a chance to check out my site. Morel Orel was an interesting post that generated quite a discussion.

                I suppose I can sound judgmental at times, but I know the goal is to lead people to Jesus.

                What could be more important?

                I’m sorry to hear that you get the same kind of treatment at times.

                I hope you keep the faith and keep writing as well.

                God’s blessings and I hope you have a good weekend, Dan!

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