“Have The New Testament Charismatic Gifts Ceased?”

That’s a post Strange Fire Conference debate between Sam Waldron and Michael Brown, moderated by James White that can be found here at The Confessing Baptist. Web site. Michael Brown’s argument is the same as he always argues for continuationism. Sam Waldron uses what he termed the ‘cascading argument’ for cessationism. It was a polite and very respectful debate, as all such discussions should be, but are often not.

Here is the complete link:  http://confessingbaptist.com/giftsdebate/

2 responses to ““Have The New Testament Charismatic Gifts Ceased?”

  1. How many gifts are there?  Just 2?  Or is it up to 9?  What are they? (1 Corinthians 12) 1.  the word of wisdom 2.  the word of knowledge 3.  faith 4. healing 5.  miracles 6.  prophecy 7.  discerning of spirits 8.  divers kinds of tongues 9.  the interpretation of tongues

    When that which is perfect comes, then the NINE gifts will cease.  But LOVE NEVER FAILS. 

    So, John MacArthur does not have the word of wisdom or the word of knowledge…that ceased, right?

    No one has the gift of discerning spirits, that, too, ceased, right?

    Some seem to forget that Chapter 12 of 1 Corinthians is not a finished topic.  The topic continues thru chapter 13, which ties this whole conversation with the word love, in that those NINE gifts will (IN THE FUTURE) eventually come to an end, but the LOVE will NEVER end.

    When Jesus comes, then there will be no need for gifts.  The gifts are needed UNTIL then.

    1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

    *What, or WHO is PERFECT?  Jesus

    What is “IN PART”?

    ***************

    Word: meroj Pronounce: mer’-os Strongs Number: G3313 Orig: from an obsolete but more primary form of meiromai (to get as a section or allotment); a division or share (literally or figuratively, in a wide application):–behalf, course, coast, craft, particular (+ -ly), part (+ -ly), piece, portion, respect, side, some sort(-what). Use: TDNT-4:594,585 Noun Neuter Heb Strong: H958 H1980 H2465 H2549 H3027 H3411 H4136 H4327 H4740 H5159 H5642 H5676 H6285 H6418 H6471 H6654 H6763 H7079 H7255 H7307 H8193 H8532 1) a part 1a) a part due or assigned to one 1b) lot, destiny 2) one of the constituent parts of a whole 2a) in part, partly, in a measure, to some degree, as respects a part, severally, individually 2b) any particular, in regard to this, in this respect

    ***************

    13:9 For 1063 we know 1097 5719 in 1537 part 3313, and 2532 we prophesy 4395 5719 in 1537 part 3313.

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    13:8 Charity 26 never 3763 faileth 1601 5719: but 1161 whether 1535 [there be] prophecies 4394, they shall fail 2673 5701; whether 1535 [there be] tongues 1100, they shall cease 3973 5695; whether 1535 [there be] knowledge 1108, it shall vanish away 2673 5701.(fail: Gr. vanish away)

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    Perfect:  Strong’s Concordance Greek Ref #5046

    Word: teleioj Pronounce: tel’-i-os Strongs Number: G5046 Orig: from 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness:–of full age, man, perfect. G5056 Use: TDNT-8:67,1161 Adjective Heb Strong: H8002 H8003 H8503 H8549 1) brought to its end, finished 2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness 3) perfect 4) that which is perfect 4a) consummate human integrity and virtue 4b) of men 4b1) full grown, adult, of full age, mature

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    Summary:

    Love continues PAST the end, but the gifts will cease AT the end.  Jesus comes at the end.  Jesus is that which is perfect.  When Jesus comes, there will be no MORE need for prophesy, there will be no MORE need for speaking in tongues.  But, in the interim, there is a NEED.

    1.  What is the PURPOSE of speaking in tongues? 2.  What is the PURPOSE of speaking prophecy?

    And, I ask what is the PURPOSE of the REMAINING 7 gifts?

    Ed Chapman

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