. . .to a friend who is convinced I’m full of flawed logic, that I’m just trying to convince others of my ‘opinion’, that this blog might just be a waste of time about stuff that doesn’t really matter. If he and others take what say as personal attacks, it is not. There was a time when I would have thought they were personally attacking me! Then I read the Bible for myself and decided to take it for what seemed to be the plain language of it’s text – what a concept!

There was too much to say in just a comment to the original post…..so here goes, beginning with the comment in black and mine in red:

This may come across as confrontational, but I am actually trying (against my better judgment) to either help you see the gaping hole in your logic, or give you a chance to fill it in for me. (You can quit going against your better judgment, and the logic isn’t ‘mine’. It’s the logic flow of scripture, from Genesis to Revelation. And since you walk in with the intent of persuading me of what you call ‘gaping holes in my logic’, rather than examining scripture [or so it seems] I could ask why are you here? Perhaps the Holy Spirit is doing something to nudge you to the truth of scripture and away from the Pope?)

If salvation works as you have said: the only people going to Heaven are the ones chosen for Heaven before the foundation of the world (Eph 2 + a lot of biblical references to predestination/having been chosen/being the called/the elect, etc.) – and those souls will NOT under any circumstances refuse the call – in fact are incapable of refusing the call. (group 1)

They can try and resist for for a time, but they will eventually come to Christ. This is because they have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit – born of God (Read John 3 for starters). That call is the Word of God being applied to a new heart of flesh (not stone). The Word of God shall never return void but will accomplish all that He sets out to do (remember that passage?). What has happened in regeneration us a turning of the human will toward God as opposed to it’s former rebellion (Romans 3 again – read around vv. 10-11 to see the condition of the unregenerate man, so that the decision for Christ is from a new heart that desires/longs for God with such an intensity that the one being called WILL arrive at the Cross and drink of the water of life freely.

And conversely, a soul not in that group will never get to Heaven no matter what their desire is, or what they believe, or what they do – in fact they probably wouldn’t desire it anyway. (group 2)

The unregenerate person desires only sin, is in rebellion against God with a heart that is altogether wicked. If that one truly desires Christ, he/she will have been regenerated and able to really hear the gospel. (Acts 17 – the Lydia principle.)

Then how can you turn around and say that the answer to “why” they choose Christ is “critical”? (Because is someone chooses Christ for reasons other than having been enlightened as to their deserved fate because of sin, repenting of their sin and trusting in Christ as the divine remedy, they might still be under the wrath of God and bound for hell – ‘other reason’ such as making a decision for Christ based on the words of a spiritual snake-oil salesman who told them to come to Christ for their best life now, to discover their special purpose, to have their lives ‘fixed’, to find material wealth or ‘success’ in their career—-pick one.) How can it be that it matters at all if I have come to address my sin, or not? (You must be kidding. Sin is the central issue of the gospel message. If you are in group 1, you WILL address your sin, because the inward call of God calls you to ‘repent and believe the gospel’. In fact ‘Repent’ is the first word of the gospel preached by John the Baptist, Christ, and the apostles on the day of Pentecost. Repentance means confronting sin. If you don’t confront it, what is their to repent from? And even repentance is a gift from God (See 2 Timothy 2:25 and Acts 11:18). If I am in group 1, even if I am in total error currently, your system says it will somehow turn around and work out (I will be drawn and I will answer) before I die. If I am in group 2, then it doesn’t matter if I try to address my sin or not, I will fail. I was created to be damned.

No one is created to be damned. We are born on death row. (Read Rom 3 and Eph 2 again)

In your system (not my system ) whether or not I think I am saved, or want to be, is irrelevant. How I act may indicate whether I am, but it doesn’t actually influence the outcome, right?

You got it. Works cannot save a man, nor can they keep one safely in the arms of God. (Eph 2:8-9) Saving faith will however produce good works. (See James)

And ultimately, if that is the way it works, why argue with people? Why do you have this blog? Why do you care about so many weak preachers or churches out there? If I’m in group 2, you won’t change me. If I’m in group 1, we’ll all have a good laugh about how wrong I was in Heaven, right?

Because God chose the preaching of the gospel as the ‘means’ of putting out a ‘general’ call to all people. When there are any of His elect (chosen before the foundation of the world) who have already had a regenerating work done in their hearts, they will recognize their desire situation apart from Christ (objects of God’s wrath [Rom 3] and Hell bound), ‘see’ God’s salvation in Christ and ‘run’ full speed for the Cross!

WHAT IS ONE OF US MISSING HERE DAN???

I don’t know…the plain truth of scripture? That is what it taught clearly throughout. Salvation by grace alone apart from any work, through faith alone (that is a gift from God), in Christ alone.

Do my actions make a difference? (Not to be saved, those would be ‘works’ that CANNOT save.) Does my attitude matter? (If your attitude is a result of having been regenerated by the Holy Spirit (not having been sprinkled, it does. It will be an attitude that cause you to head for the Cross, confessing your sin and repenting of it.) Is my reasoning and theology important? (If you want to really know God, it does and it matters to Jesus [John 17:3]) Does confronting and abandoning the sin in my life make a difference? (Yes, if it is from a regenerated heart.) Of course I say all that matters tremendously. But for the life of me, I cannot reconcile why you think it is important. And yet you argue so passionately against what you perceive as error. (If it is not to be found in scripture/contradicts what scripture teaches about salvation, then it is apostate and ‘another’ gospel. The sort that Paul declared as cursed and deserving of Hell. That means there are thousands, if not millions of souls out there who think they are saved and remain lost. How could I NOT care?!) Even if you say it is about obedience, don’t you believe that obedience comes as a natural consequence of being in group 1? (Not sure what ‘it’ you refer to. Obedience IS a natural result of being among God’s elect, because it is God working from the inside creating an eager and willing heart to obey [Phil 2:13])

I guess what I’m getting at is please explain how, in your view of how we come to God, evangelization, in any form, by one human toward another – including your blog – is not a totally wasted effort.

Not wasted at all. God has given men the greatest privilege in the universe – the preaching of the Gospel message (which you can term a ‘general’ call as mentioned earlier). It’s THE GREAT PRIVILEGE! To be used of God in the process he has determined to use in the saving of His people. I cannot save anyone, the preaching itself saves no one, but maybe there will be a ’Lydia’ out there whose ears have been opened to hear the gospel and another of God’s elect will run to the Cross.

Go here, here and/or here and just read some of the material. You will find more specific answers to your objections.

It is my sincere prayer that God is doing a work in you and will prompt you to just read the Book for yourself, without the aid of the Pope and the Magisterium. Is not God big enough to speak to all of us equally? To whom was the Holy Spirit given according to the Bible? In whom was the promised Spirit to dwell? The promised comforter was sent to live in each and every individual believer! Read the Book. I saw that to anyone who reads this blog and hates what I have to say. I’ll say it again – there was time in my Christian (yes I said Christian) walk that I had many of the same objections to clear teaching of scripture. I was deceived ‘in church’.