“Here Comes the He Gets Us Campaign Again: Why Its Portrayal of Jesus is Still a Problem” By Natasha Crain

Here is the introduction to a lengthy, yet hugely informative article concerning the “He Gets Us” campaign, some of which filled screens during the NFL playoffs and will again appear during the Super Bowl.

Last year, I wrote an article called “7 Problems with the He Gets Us Campaign,” in which I critically responded to the $100 million advertising campaign featuring a website, billboards in major cities, a book, and ads that have been viewed more than 300 million times. Perhaps most visibly, the campaign’s ads were featured in last year’s Super Bowl. When thousands of people went searching for more information on it, my article came up, and it went viral—actually pulling down my site at one point! Clearly, a lot of people are interested in knowing more about the nature of these ads.

Fast forward to 2024. Super Bowl Sunday is in a few days, and He Gets Us will once again be running ads that generate widespread curiosity. Given the reach of the campaign and high interest level, I wanted to do an updated evaluation of what He Gets Us is doing today. To that end, I’m going to answer four questions:

  1. Does the He Gets Us Campaign get skeptics interested in Jesus?
  2. Does the He Gets Us Campaign get skeptics interested in the right Jesus?
  3. Do the He Gets Us campaign reading plans take people to the next level of understanding Jesus (beyond the slick website and TV ads)?
  4. Does the He Gets Us campaign direct people to theologically solid churches for continuing their search for truth?

I highly recommend reading this latest article, as well as Natasha Crain’s first article, which is linked to above and can also be accessed here. The remainder of this article can be read online at:

Here Comes the He Gets Us Campaign Again: Why Its Portrayal of Jesus is Still a Problem | Natasha Crain

Be Blessed!

“He giveth quietness.” (Job 34:29.)

QUIETNESS amid the dash of the storm. We sail the lake with Him still; and as we reach its middle waters, far from land, under midnight skies, suddenly a great storm sweeps down. Earth and hell seem arrayed against us, and each billow threatens to overwhelm. Then He arises from His sleep, and rebukes the winds and the waves; His hand waves benediction and repose over the rage of the tempestuous elements. His voice is heard above the scream of the wind in the cordage and the conflict of the billows, “Peace, be still!” Can you not hear it? And there is instantly a great calm. “He giveth quietness.” Quietness amid the loss of inward consolations. He sometimes withdraws these, because we make too much of them. We are tempted to look at our joy, our ecstasies, our transports, or our visions, with too great complacency. Then love for love’s sake, withdraws them. But, by His grace, He leads us to distinguish between them and Himself. He draws nigh, and whispers the assurance of His presence. Thus an infinite calm comes to keep our heart and mind. “He giveth quietness.”

“He giveth quietness.” O Elder Brother,
Whose homeless feet have pressed our path of pain,
Whose hands have borne the burden of our sorrow,
That in our losses we might find our gain.

“Of all Thy gifts and infinite consolings,
I ask but this: in every troubled hour
To hear Thy voice through all the tumults stealing,
And rest serene beneath its tranquil power.

“Cares cannot fret me if my soul be dwelling
In the still air of faith’s untroubled day;
Grief cannot shake me if I walk beside thee,
My hand in Thine along the darkening way.

“Content to know there comes a radiant morning
When from all shadows I shall find release;
Serene to wait the rapture of its dawning—
Who can make trouble when Thou sendest peace?”

Cowman, L. B. (1925). Streams in the Desert (pp. 34–35). The Oriental Missionary Society. (Public Domain)

____________________________

The above was posted on the Christian Military Fellowship Facebook age by Robert Flynn, Long time CMF member and former CMF Chief Executive Officer. The FB Post can be viewed at:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/CMFHQ/permalink/10161619812924809/?mibextid=oMANbw Free to share, especially to those you know who are now are serving in military service, who are veterans. The CMF Web site is located at: Christian Military Fellowship – Serving Our Troops (cmfhq.org) You can ;also access CMF using the logo at the right of this page.

The Dispensation of the Grace of God: Eph 3:1-13

This morning I’ve been listening to a sermon by Dr. S.Lewis Johnson that I have previously listened to in which he discusses both covenants and dispensations, and in particular the indoctrination of the dispensation of grace through the Apostle Paul, as well as the ‘mystery’ revealed to Paul and New Testaments Apostles and Prophets.

Much of what I have tried to communicate to my Mid-Acts Dispensationalist (M.A.D.) friends (who are often not friendly at all), and much more is presented in great detail, and so very graciously it should be difficult for anyone at all to find his preaching and teaching objectionable.

Without further delay, here is the link to both the sermon, as well as the downloadable transcript:

 Dispensation of Grace of God – SLJ Institute

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Samuel (S.) Lewis Johnson, Jr. (September 13, 1915 – January 28, 2004), was a conservative evangelical pastor and theologian, was for many years a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary. Johnson was a moderate dispensationalist and a Five-point Calvinist in his soteriology. He was a Biblical scholar and theologian of “rare abilities” and of international renown.  (S. Lewis Johnson – Wikipedia)

Be Blessed!

An ‘Excellent’ KJV Question?

clip_image002I came across the following question on FB recently:

Q: Why is it that the King James version is hard to understand compared to the other versions of the Bible?

On its face, that’s an excellent question, so I provided my best short answer:

It was written in 17th century English, the common English of its time. The question was about the KJV compared to other, more modern versions, some of which are really very good translations. I actually compared a particular verse in two English Bibles (KJV & NIV), and modern language Spanish, German, & Polish Bibles. The NIV was the English Bible closest to the Greek meaning, and the other foreign languages were also close to the Greek meaning. The KJV was an excellent translation in terms of 17th century common English, however 17th century common English is not today’s common English.

Then I scanned a lot of the other answers. Sadly, most of the other answers had little or nothing to do with the original, honest question (I thought was honestly resented), or so I thought it was. Then I came across the answer from the man who asked the question:

A: It’s because it’s not the Word of God. The translators were clergymen from the church of England.

I had not expected such a ‘silly’ answer, but it turned out that the FB page that posed the question is one that seems to be more of an “opinion” free-for-all/digital “food fight” than honest objective discussion. Well, never mind that, it’s still a good question, and it prompted me to review the history of the KJV.

I found a short but informative of the KJV published by the Encyclopedia Britannica that provided some interesting background information, the preparation leading up to the first published version of the KJV, as well as some interesting tidbits of information I did not already know. I found out that King James had an approved list of 54 revisers, although 47 scholars worked on the actual revision, organized into six companies that worked on assigned sections of the Bible at Westminster, Oxford and Cambridge.[i]

I also found a really good article published at Christianity.com that discussed King James’ motives for the revision, centering on the need for a Bible in the language of 17th century common people. The commissioning of the new revision of the Bible took place in 1604 at the Hampton Court in Londin and the influence of various segments of 17th century Christianity in England. Specific rules were adopted for the monumental translation effort. One of those was Rule #6 that stated: “No Marginal Notes at all to be affixed, but only for the explanation of the Hebrew or Greek Words.” Also, James was looking for a single translation that the whole nation could rely on “To be read in the whole Church,” as he phrased it. He decreed that special pains be “taken for a uniform translation, which should be done by the best learned men in both Universities, then reviewed by the Bishops, presented to the Privy Council, lastly ratified by the Royal authority….”[ii]

Back to the Bible translation experimented I conducted in the mid-80’s when I was attending the Polish Language course at the Defense Language Institute in Monterrey, CA. I was attending a small church between Ft. Ord, where I was living, and Monterrey. The Pastor assisted by providing Greek language dictionaries.

I already summarized my little experiment at the top of this article, but I didn’t tell you what passage of scripture I used, John 1:5, KJV:

“And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

The other English translation I used was the NIV:

“The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.”

At first glance, there seems to be a slightly different meaning between the KJV and NIV. The former tells us that the darkness could not understand (comprehend) the light, while the NIV says that the darkness could not overcome the light. That was my 20th century brain kicking in.

What I found most interesting about that little bit of research was that the Polish modern language translation of that passage was closer to the original Greek than all of the other translations!

So What? What did I learn from that little FB question and the research from years ago?

1. As far as the original question is concerned, perhaps I need to not be so gullible when reading questions on FB posts. They often tend to be intentionally leading questions, designed with the ‘correct’ answer already in the mind of the questioner, who merely wants to demonstrate his/her deep and profound knowledge.

2. Concerning the 1611 KJV Bible and King James Onlyism, I remain convinced that to claim that one of the KJV versions (there are more than one) is as inspired as the original manuscripts/autographs is right up there with believing in a ‘flat’ earth, in more ways than one.

As a parting thought, or a Post Script, I would like you to read a small portion of the preface to the 1611 KJV itself and the words of the translators:

“The translators argue that all previous English translations can rightly be called the Word of God, even though they may contain some “imperfections and blemishes.” Just as the King’s speech which he utters in Parliament is still the King’s speech, though it may be imperfectly trans­lated into French, Dutch, Italian, and Latin; so also in the case of the translation of the Word of God. For translations will never be infal­lible since they are not like the original manuscripts, which were pro­duced by the apostles and their associates under the influence of inspira­tion. However, even an imperfect translation like the Septuagint can surely be called the Word of God since it was approved and used by the apostles themselves. But since all translations are imperfect, the Church of Rome should not object to the continual process of correcting and improving English translations of the Bible. Even their own Vulgate has gone through many revisions since the day of Jerome.”[iii]

You can read the entire preface online here.


[i] King James Version – Britannica Encyclopedia

[ii] Story Behind the King James Bible: How was it Created?

[iii] Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary The Embarrassing Preface to the King James Version – Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary (dbts.edu)

“When will Rev.5:9-10 be fulfilled?” – Facebook Question

Biblical Perspicacity: Day 12 of Revelation Study: Chapter 5

I thought that was an interesting question, primarily because I never actually asked it of that short passage when reading or studying Revelation. Since questions concerning the fulfillment of prophecy seem to interest those of us who profess Christ, I decided to take a look.

First, since the ‘versification’ of scripture did not exist when John penned the Revelation, perhaps we would do well to place Rev 5:9-10 into their original context as part of a grand picture of the throne room of God presented to us in Chapters 4 and 5, since they stand on their own as a grand view of the God’s throne prior to the opening of the Seven Seals.

Revelation 4 paints a picture of absolute divine majesty and ceaseless worship. It is a beautiful reminder of the grandeur and holiness of God, and the reverence He is due. This revelation encourages us to reflect upon our own worship and attitudes toward God’s divine majesty. In our everyday life, let us remember the heavenly vision and seek to worship God with the same awe and reverence shown by the heavenly beings.[i]

Revelation 5 paints an awe-inspiring image of divine mystery, power, and majesty. It reinforces that Christ’s sacrifice makes Him worthy of ultimate honor and praise. The chapter invites us to join in the heavenly worship, acknowledging the sovereign power of God and the sacrificial love of the Lamb. Revelation 5 presents a compelling scene of heavenly worship and redemption. In this chapter, the apostle John narrates his vision of the heavenly throne room where a dramatic display unfolds concerning a seven-sealed scroll, an emblem of the impending judgments of God. The pivotal moment arrives when the Lamb, identified as Jesus Christ, is found worthy to open the scroll, leading to a grand outburst of worship and adoration.[ii]

Here is the immediate context of this post’s title question, Revelation 5:1-10:

“Then I saw in the right hand of him who was seated on the throne a scroll written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals. 2And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?” 3And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it, 4and I began to weep loudly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. 5And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.” 6And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7And he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne. 8And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, 10and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.” (Emphasis mine)

That brings us back to the original question “When will Rev 5:9-10 be fulfilled?” In rereading those verses, we find that they speak of things past, present, and future. We are told that Jesus Christ is worthy to open the scroll because with His blood He purchased men for God (past), that those He purchased were made a kingdom and priests to our God (past and present) and that one day they will reign on the earth (future).

Verses 11 – 14 then present us with perhaps might be the most majestic picture in all of scripture of those who will worship The Lamb who was slain, who died for our sins, was resurrected, and now sits at the right hand of God!

And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing. 13And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto him that sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb for ever and ever. 14And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him who lives for ever and ever.” (Rev 5:11-14)

So, perhaps the question “When will Rev 5:9-10 be fulfilled?” comes in a very distant second, and pales in comparison to the splendor and majesty of the revelation that Christ is worthy to take the scroll because with His blood He purchased men for God, from every tribe, tongue and nation!

Furthermore, we are not told exactly when those for whom Christ died will reign, only that it will happen! That alone provides an awesome and wonderful hope to the believer who reckons the fulfillment to still be in the future, especially since we are living in a world careening at breakneck speed into an abyss of total lawlessness.

I’ll leave you with a few words spoken by the Apostle to a young Gentile convert and ally of Paul, Titus:

“For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.” (Titus 2:11-14)

Be Blessed!

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[i] Revelation 4 Chapter Summary (biblehub.com)

[ii] Revelation 5 Chapter Summary (biblehub.com)

Book Recommendation–The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind by Mark Noll

I just started rereading this excellent book and am glad I did. I first read it on Kindle some time ago and it’s time to read it again. If you spend a lot of time trying, largely to little avail, to maintain rational and thoughtful discussions with others, this book explains a lot of what has led up to where we are at this point in history concerning the ‘evangelical mind’. The Gospel Coalition published a ‘Symposium’ style review of the latest edition that contained the following:

Unsparing in his indictment, Mark Noll asks why the largest single group of religious Americans—who enjoy increasing wealth, status, and political influence—have contributed so little to rigorous intellectual scholarship. While nourishing believers in the simple truths of the gospel, why have so many evangelicals failed to sustain a serious intellectual life and abandoned the universities, the arts, and other realms of “high” culture?

More than 25 years since its original publication, The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind has turned out to be prescient and perennially relevant. In a new preface, Noll lays out his ongoing personal frustrations with this situation, and in a new afterword he assesses the state of the scandal—showing how white evangelicals’ embrace of Trumpism, their deepening distrust of science, and their frequent forays into conspiratorial thinking have coexisted with surprisingly robust scholarship from many with strong evangelical connections.

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The TGC article ban be found at: Symposium: ‘Scandal of the Evangelical Mind’ 30 Years Later (thegospelcoalition.org)

Be Blessed!

Another Full Preterist Misuse of Scripture

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In this offering from ASiteForTheLord, the purpose of the meme’s author is to claim that 2 Tim 4:1 is teaching us that four things are about to happen, undoubtedly to support the fullfilment of all biblical prophecy by A.D. 70.

He bases his assertion on the use of the Greek work “mello” (without presenting the entire passage, by the way), translated as “shall” in the KJV. He even references a well known and respected Greek lexicon!

Well, once again, let’s put 2 Tim 4:1 back in its original context, and include the second verse of Paul’s instructions to young Timothy for the carrying out his duties as a pastor:

“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. (2 Tim 4:1-2)

2 Timothy 4 concludes Paul’s instructions to Timothy that were contained in both of his letters to the young pastor. Verses 1 & 2 are the prelude or prologue to the remainder of chapter 4, which gives us the why of his solemn charge to Timothy in vv. 3-5:

3“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;  4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.”

The remainder of chapter 4 includes a set of personal instructions and final greetings.

Let’s now take a look at both references for the term “mello”: Strong’s G3195, μέλλω,mellō

Strong’s

A strengthened form of G3199 (through the idea of expectation); to intend, that is, be about to be, do, or suffer something (of persons or things, especially events; in the sense of purpose, duty, necessity, probability, possibility, or hesitation): – about, after that, be (almost), (that which is, things, + which was for) to come, intend, was to (be), mean, mind, be at the point, (be) ready, + return, shall (begin), (which, that) should (after, afterwards, hereafter) tarry, which was for, will, would, be yet.

Thayer Definition:

1) to be about

1a) to be on the point of doing or suffering something

1b) to intend, have in mind, think to

Part of Speech: verb

Noted partial preterist Gary Demar, President of American Vision devoted an entire article on the use of “mello”, primarily in the book of Revelation, that can be read online here.[i]

As his conclusion, DeMar writes:

I’m raising this issue to demonstrate that there is some interpretive latitude on how mellō can/should be translated. It becomes an issue on the more eschatological passages like Acts 17:31 and 24:15.

Concerning 1 timothy 4:1, multiple commentaries all place the emphasis on Paul’s charge to young Timothy, not the specific timing of Christ’s second coming.:

Coffman

Facing the immediate prospect of death, as were so many others of the faithful Christians, Paul declared his solemn charge to be “before,” that is, “in the sight of” God and of Christ Jesus; but it was also very appropriate that his charge with attendant warnings should contain this powerful reminder of the eternal judgment to be faced by all men.

Dr. Constable’s Expository Notes

Paul wanted Timothy to proclaim the truth in his public ministry as well as to adhere to it in his personal life. He introduced the command in 2 Timothy 4:2 with a very solemn preamble in 2 Timothy 4:1 (cf. 1 Timothy 5:21; 1 Timothy 6:13). He reminded Timothy that God was watching him, as was Jesus Christ who will judge all people. He further reminded him that Christ will return (at any time implied) and set up His kingdom. Timothy should prepare to meet Him by carrying out Paul’s command (cf. Mark 13:34-35).

Albert Barnes

I charge thee therefore before God – See the notes on 1Ti_5:21.

Who shall judge the quick and the dead – That is, the Lord Jesus; for he is to be the judge of men; Mat. 25:31-46; 2Co_5:10. The word “quick” means “living” (See the Act_10:42 note; Eph_2:1 note); and the idea is, that he would be alike the judge of all who were alive when he should come, and of all who had died; see the notes on 1Th_4:16-17. In view of the fact that all, whether preachers or hearers, must give up their account to the final Judge, Paul charges Timothy to be faithful; and what is there which will more conduce to fidelity in the discharge of duty, than the thought that we must soon give up a solemn account of the manner in which we have performed it?

Bible Knowledge Commentary

It would be difficult to see how Paul could have made his charge to Timothy any more weighty (cf. 1Ti_5:21; 1Ti_6:13). He adjured Timothy, not only in the name of God and of Christ, but in the light of the coming judgment, Christ’s return (epiphaneian, appearing; cf. 1Ti_6:14; 2Ti_4:8; Tit_2:13), and the establishment of His millennial kingdom.

John Calvin

I charge thee, therefore, before God and the Lord Jesus Christ Here, as in a very weighty matter, Paul adds a solemn charge, exhibiting to Timothy, God as the avenger, and Christ as the judge, if he shall cease to discharge his office of teaching. And, indeed, in like manner as God showed by an inestimable pledge, when he spared not his only-begotten Son, how great is the care which he has for the Church, so he will not suffer to remain unpunished the negligence of pastors, through whom souls, which he hath redeemed at so costly a price, perish or are exposed as a prey.

Who shall judge the living and the dead More especially the Apostle fixes attention on the judgment of Christ; because, as we are his representatives, so he will demand a more strict account of evil administration.

Dr. Constable’s Expository Notes

Paul wanted Timothy to proclaim the truth in his public ministry as well as to adhere to it in his personal life. He introduced the command in 2 Timothy 4:2 with a very solemn preamble in 2 Timothy 4:1 (cf. 1 Timothy 5:21; 1 Timothy 6:13). He reminded Timothy that God was watching him, as was Jesus Christ who will judge all people. He further reminded him that Christ will return (at any time implied) and set up His kingdom. Timothy should prepare to meet Him by carrying out Paul’s command (cf. Mark 13:34-35).

Paul’s point was this. Jesus Christ will judge Christians at the judgment seat of Christ and then appear again at the Second Coming (cf. 2 Timothy 1:10) and set up His millennial kingdom on the earth. Consequently Timothy needed to herald the Word of God (2 Timothy 4:2) and faithfully carry out the ministry that God had given him (2 Timothy 4:5).

So how do I know that the meme introducing this article is a distinctly full preterist viewpoint? In the lower right hand corner we find the source:

clip_image002

While the meme didn’t specifically state that the four things that were going to happen occurred in 70 A.D., the carefully inserted note that Paul wrote his letter to Timothy in the mid to late 60’s A.D., coupled with the “Hmmm” at the end are subtly suggesting that the reader strongly consider that the appearance of the Lord, the resurrection, the judgment, and the arrival of the kingdom were all “surely about to happen.”

Finally, I would like to leave you with a quotation from an article by Dr. Kenneth Gentry, a partial preterist, concerning typical full preterist tactics for attracting believers to their doctrine:

“Sadly, the Full Preterist can gain a hearing among unsuspecting believers by engaging in a certain “craftiness” whereby the minds of the untrained are “led astray” (cf. 2 Cor. 11:3). Thus, unprepared Christians can be “tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming” (Eph. 4:14).”[ii]


[i] How Should the Greek Word ‘Mello’ be Translated? – The American Vision

[ii] Full Preterism is Full of Error

Another Bad Question?

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Well, I’ve had another opportunity to analyze an ‘interesting’ question posed from a preterist (all biblical prophecy has been fulfilled) perspective. Let’s jump in.

First of all, we need to put Daniel 12:7 back into the context of Daniel, chapter 12.

The Great Unveiling: Divine Revelations and Eternal Promises

In Daniel 12, we are reminded that no matter how difficult or tumultuous our circumstances may be, God’s protection and promises remain constant. We are also called to seek wisdom and understanding in the face of mystery, reminding us that, ultimately, our quest for knowledge is a divine journey.

Verses 1-4: The Time of Distress and the Promise of Resurrection

These verses describe a time of unparalleled distress that will occur at the end of days. Yet, in this time of strife, Michael, the great prince, will stand to protect Daniel’s people. It also mentions a resurrection, where those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awaken, some to everlasting life and others to everlasting contempt.

Verses 5-7: The Sealed Prophecy

Here, Daniel sees two beings, one on each side of the river, asking the man clothed in linen about when the astonishing events will occur. The man, raising his hands to the heavens, swears by the eternal God that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and when the power of the holy people has been shattered, all these events will be completed.

Verses 8-13: The Duration of the End Times

Daniel, not understanding, asks for clarification. The man, however, tells him that the words are sealed until the time of the end. He describes that the wicked will not understand, but the wise will, and puts forth times and durations to signify the end, blessing those who wait and reach the 1335 days. Finally, Daniel is told to go his way until the end, for he will rest and then rise again for his allotted inheritance at the end of days.

Daniel 12, the concluding chapter of the Book of Daniel, continues and finalizes the long-range prophecy given to Daniel by an angel. In this captivating finale, Daniel receives revelations of the end times, including a period of unmatched distress, the promise of resurrection and judgment, and the sealing of these prophecies until the end time.[i]

First of all, I have no idea exactly why Daniel said what he said in Daniel, Chapter 12. All I know for sure is that an angel (some say Gabriel) spoke to Daniel, that Daniel wrote down what the angel told him, and that Daniel asked for clarification (v. 8), but the angel clarified exactly nothing and told Daniel to go about his way.

Furthermore, I’m not sure Daniel understood what the angel told him either, because he asked for clarification:

“I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, “O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?” (v. 8)

The angel then told Daniel:

“He (the angel) said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.” (v.9)

Let’s move on to what the angel said about the fulfillment of prophecy: “when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished.” (v. 7)

Note that the above meme claims that “the shattering of the power of the holy people” occurred with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. We are to automatically accept that assertion as fact and move on. That’s where my research became interesting. I consulted and recorded information found in nearly a dozen commentaries and found references to a repeated pattern of persecution and the scattering of God’s people at three different specific times:

  • Antiochus Epiphanes’ destruction of Jerusalem in 168 B.C.
  • Rome’s destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
  • The Antichrist’s persecution of Christians in New Testament times, prior to Jesus’ second coming in judgment.

One commentary offered an excellent summary of those periods:

Although Daniel’s understanding had been helped by the interpreting angel, the visions and revelations that God gave him had more significance than he may have realized. Their symbolic meaning extended beyond the period of conflict that followed the Jews’ return from Babylon. The terrible suffering under Antiochus, though it was the last great persecution of the Jews before the coming of the Messiah, was by no means the end of their troubles.

When the Messiah came, the Jewish people as a whole rejected him and brought upon themselves, at the hands of Rome, greater suffering than they had ever experienced before (cf. 7:23-25). Jesus more than once connected the Jews’ rejection of him with the ‘desolating abomination’ and ‘awful horror’ of the Romans’ destruction of Jerusalem (Matthew 21:37-41; Matthew 23:37-38; Matthew 24:15-22,Matthew 24:32-33; Luke 21:20-24; Luke 23:28-31).

Many years after the destruction of Jerusalem, John wrote of the persecution of God’s people, using symbolism that again was taken from the book of Daniel (Revelation 11:1-3; Revelation 12:6-7,Revelation 12:14; Revelation 13:1-12; Revelation 17:8-14). An anti-God spirit had motivated the persecutors of the Jews in Old Testament times, and now the same anti-God spirit was motivating the persecutors of Christians in New Testament times. The anti-God spirit was now specifically anti-Christ. This spirit is always hostile to God and his people (1 John 2:18), and will have its fullest expression in the antichrist who will appear at the end of the age and who will be destroyed by Christ at his coming (2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; Revelation 19:20).

Whatever the era and whoever the antichrist, the message for God’s people is always one of encouragement: ‘he who endures to the end shall be saved’ (Daniel 12:12; Matthew 24:13; 2 Timothy 2:11-12; 2 Timothy 2:11-12; Revelation 12:11; Revelation 13:10; Revelation 20:4). In the end all the powers of this world must give way to the rule of God, whose people inherit his eternal kingdom (Daniel 7:27; Matthew 25:34; Revelation 11:15; Revelation 19:1-8).[ii]

Back to the meme for a just a couple more comments. The shattering of the power of the holy people is equated with “their (Israel’s) old mode of covenantal existence”, which was of course in 70 A.D., when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Roman armies. Disregarding the claim that Israel’s old covenant existence ended in 70 A.D., the more significant question is “When did the Old Covenant with God’s people end and the New Covenant begin?” Two primary passages give us the answer to that question.

Jesus, when he last dined with his disciples told them:

“Luke 22:20b  “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.”  (See also Matt 26:28 & Mark 14:24)

Then, on the cross at Calvary, when the sinless Savior, having fulfilled all the righteous requirements of the law, with his final Jesus declared:

“It is finished” (John 19:30).

____________________________

Once again, I’ve had the opportunity to analyze another questionable meme sourced from a full preterist site (ASiteForTheLord.com). You probably won’t find the FB meme at the site (at least I couldn’t), however you can certainly purchase some books and download a free PDF called Fulfilled Eschatology from the homepage, as well as a concise one page summary on the End Times Topics page. ASiteForTheLord memes keep popping up on a couple of sites I visit. I read somewhere that preterists can be really clever at seducing younger believers who are not yet biblically well read into accepting their beliefs. This was just another example.


[i] https://biblehub.com/chaptersummaries/daniel/12.htm

[ii] https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/commentaries/bbc/daniel-12.php

Four Views of Revelation

– Dr Patrick Zukeran, Probe Ministries, Used with Permission

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The Debate

One of the most intriguing books of the Bible is the book of Revelation. The imagery of the cosmic battle in heaven and on earth makes it a fascinating book to study. However, much debate surrounds the proper interpretation of this apocalyptic work. Is this book a prophecy of future events yet to take place, or have the prophecies of this book been fulfilled?

Two popular authors highlight the debate that continues in our present time. In his hit series Left Behind, Tim LaHaye writes a fictional account based on his theological position that the events of Revelation will occur in the future. Popular radio talk show host Hank Hanegraaff responded by attacking the theology of LaHaye. In his book The Apocalypse Code, Hanegraaff asserts that the events of Revelation were largely fulfilled in AD 70 with the fall of the Jerusalem Temple. He criticizes theologians like LaHaye for taking a hyper-literal approach to Revelation.{1} The debate has raised some confusion among Christians as to why there is such a debate and how we should interpret the book of Revelation.

The issues at the core of the debate between Hanegraaff and LaHaye are not new. Throughout church history, there have been four different views regarding the book of Revelation: idealist, preterist, historicist, and futurist. The idealist view teaches that Revelation describes in symbolic language the battle throughout the ages between God and Satan and good against evil. The preterist view teaches that the events recorded in the book of Revelation were largely fulfilled in AD 70 with the fall of the Jerusalem Temple. The historicist view teaches that the book of Revelation is a symbolic presentation of church history beginning in the first century AD through the end of age. The prophecies of Revelation are fulfilled in various historic events such as the fall of the Roman Empire, the Protestant Reformation, and the French Revolution. The futurist view teaches that Revelation prophesies events that will take place in the future. These events include the rapture of the church, seven years of tribulation, and a millennial rule of Christ upon the earth.

Each view attempts to interpret Revelation according to the laws of hermeneutics, the art and science of interpretation. This is central to the debate about how we should approach and interpret Revelation. The idealist approach believes that apocalyptic literature like Revelation should be interpreted allegorically. The preterist and historicist views are similar in some ways to the allegorical method, but it is more accurate to say preterists and historicists view Revelation as symbolic history. The preterist views Revelation as a symbolic presentation of events that occurred in AD 70, while the historicist school views the events as symbolic of all Western church history. The futurist school believes Revelation should be interpreted literally. In other words, the events of Revelation are to occur at a future time.

The goal of this work is to present a brief overview of the four views of Revelation and present the strengths of each view as well as its weaknesses. It is my hope that the reader will gain a basic understanding and be able to understand the debate among theologians today.

The Idealist View

The first view of Revelation is the idealist view, or the spiritual view. This view uses the allegorical method to interpret the Book of Revelation. The allegorical approach to Revelation was introduced by ancient church father Origen (AD 185-254) and made prominent by Augustine (AD 354-420). According to this view, the events of Revelation are not tied to specific historical events. The imagery of the book symbolically presents the ongoing struggle throughout the ages of God against Satan and good against evil. In this struggle, the saints are persecuted and martyred by the forces of evil but will one day receive their vindication. In the end, God is victorious, and His sovereignty is displayed throughout ages. Robert Mounce summarizes the idealist view stating, “Revelation is a theological poem presenting the ageless struggle between the kingdom of light and the kingdom of darkness. It is a philosophy of history wherein Christian forces are continuously meeting and conquering the demonic forces of evil.”{2}

In his commentary on Revelation, late nineteenth century scholar William Milligan stated, “While the Apocalypse thus embraces the whole period of the Christian dispensation, it sets before us within this period the action of great principles and not special incidents; we are not to look in the Apocalypse for special events, both for the exhibition of the principles which govern the history of both the world and the Church.”{3}

The symbols in Revelation are not tied to specific events but point to themes throughout church history. The battles in Revelation are viewed as spiritual warfare manifested in the persecution of Christians or wars in general that have occurred in history. The beast from the sea may be identified as the satanically-inspired political opposition to the church in any age. The beast from the land represents pagan, or corrupt, religion to Christianity. The harlot represents the compromised church, or the seduction of the world in general. Each seal, trumpet, or bowl represents natural disasters, wars, famines, and the like which occur as God works out His plan in history. Catastrophes represent God’s displeasure with sinful man; however, sinful mankind goes through these catastrophes while still refusing to turn and repent. God ultimately triumphs in the end.

The strength of this view is that it avoids the problem of harmonizing passages with events in history. It also makes the book of Revelation applicable and relevant for all periods of church history.{4}

However, there are several weaknesses of this view. First, this view denies the book of Revelation any specific historical fulfillment. The symbols portray the ever-present conflict but no necessary consummation of the historical process.{5} Rev.1:1 states that the events will come to pass shortly, giving the impression that John is prophesying future historical events.

Second, reading spiritual meanings into the text could lead to arbitrary interpretations. Followers of this approach have often allowed the cultural and socio-political factors of their time to influence their interpretation rather than seeking the author’s intended meaning.{6} Merrill Tenney states,

The idealist view . . . assumes a “spiritual” interpretation, and allows no concrete significance whatever to figures that it employs. According to this viewpoint they are not merely symbolic of events and persons, as the historicist view contends; they are only abstract symbols of good and evil. They may be attached to any time or place, but like the characters of Pilgrim’s Progress, represent qualities or trends. In interpretation, the Apocalypse may thus mean anything or nothing according to the whim of the interpreter.{7}

Unless interpreters are grounded in the grammatical, historical, and contextual method of hermeneutics, they leave themselves open to alternate interpretations that may even contradict the author’s intended meaning.

The Preterist View

The second view is called the preterist view. Preter, which means “past,” is derived from the Latin. There are two major views among preterists: full preterism and partial preterism. Both views believe that the prophecies of the Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Revelation were fulfilled in the first century with the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70. Chapters 1-3 describe the conditions in the seven churches of Asia Minor prior to the Jewish war (AD 66-70). The remaining chapters of Revelation and Jesus’ Olivet Discourse describe the fall of Jerusalem to the Romans.

Full preterists believe that all the prophecies found in Revelation were fulfilled in AD 70 and that we are now living in the eternal state, or the new heavens and the new earth. Partial preterists believe that most of the prophecies of Revelation were fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem but that chapters 20-22 point to future events such as a future resurrection of believers and return of Christ to the earth. Partial preterists view full preterism as heretical since it denies the second coming of Christ and teaches an unorthodox view of the resurrection.

Church historians trace the roots of preterism to Jesuit priest Luis de Alcazar (1554-1613).{8} Alcazar’s interpretation is considered a response to the Protestant historicist interpretation of Revelation that identified the Pope as the Anti-Christ. However, some preterists contend that preterist teachings are found in the writings of the early church as early as the fourth century AD.{9}

Crucial to the preterist view is the date of Revelation. Since it is a prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem, preterists hold to a pre-AD 70 date of writing. According to this view, John was writing specifically to the church of his day and had only its situation in mind. This letter was written to encourage the saints to persevere under the persecution of the Roman Empire.

Preterists point to several reasons to support their view. First, Jesus stated at the end of the Olivet Discourse, “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place” (Mt. 24:34). A generation usually refers to forty years. The fall of Jerusalem would then fit the time Jesus predicted. Second, Josephus’ detailed record of the fall of Jerusalem appears in several ways to match the symbolism of Revelation. Finally, this view would be directly relevant to John’s readers of his day.

There are several criticisms of this view. First, the events described in Jesus’ Olivet Discourse and in Revelation 4-19 differ in several ways from the fall of Jerusalem.

One example is that Christ described his return to Jerusalem this way: “[A]s lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man” (Mt. 24:27). Preterists believe this refers to the Roman army’s advance on Jerusalem. However, the Roman army advanced on Jerusalem from west to east, and their assault was not as a quick lightning strike. The Jewish war lasted for several years before Jerusalem was besieged, and the city fell after a lengthy siege.{10} Second, General Titus did not set up an “abomination of desolation” (Mt. 24:15) in the Jerusalem Temple. Rather, he destroyed the Temple and burned it to the ground. Thus, it appears the preterist is required to allegorize or stretch the metaphors and symbols in order to find fulfillment of the prophecies in the fall of Jerusalem.

Another example of allegorical interpretation by preterists is their interpretation of Revelation 7:4. John identifies a special group of prophets: the 144,000 from the “tribes of Israel.” Preterist Hanegraaff states that this group represents the true bride of Christ and is referred to in Rev. 7:9 as the “great multitude that no one could count from every nation, tribe, people, and language.” In other words, the 144,000 in verse 4, and the great multitude in verse 9 are the same people.{11} This appears to go against the context of the chapter for several reasons. First, throughout the Bible the phrase “tribes of Israel” refers to literal Jews. Second, John says there are 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. This is a strange way to describe the multitude of believers from all nations. Finally, the context shows John is speaking of two different groups: one on the earth (the 144,000 referenced in 7:1-3), and the great multitude in heaven before the throne (7:9). Here Hanegraaff appears to be allegorizing the text.

Robert Mounce states,

The major problem with the preterist position is that the decisive victory portrayed in the latter chapters of the Apocalypse was never achieved. It is difficult to believe that John envisioned anything less than the complete overthrow of Satan, the final destruction of evil, and the eternal reign on God. If this is not to be, then either the Seer was essentially wrong in the major thrust of his message or his work was so helplessly ambiguous that its first recipients were all led astray.{12}

Mounce and other New Testament scholars believe the preterists’ interpretations are not consistent and utilize allegorical interpretations to make passages fit their theological view.

Second, the preterist position rests on a pre-AD 70 date of writing. However, most New Testament scholars date the writing of the book to AD 95. If John had written Revelation after AD 70, the book could not have been a prophecy of the fall of Jerusalem. This presents a significant argument against the preterist position.

Preterists point to several lines of evidence for a pre-AD 70 date of writing. First, John does not mention the fall of the Jerusalem Temple. If he had been writing two decades after the event, it seems strange that he never mentioned this catastrophic event. Second, John does not refer to either Jesus’ prophecy of the destruction of the Temple (Mt. 24, Mk. 13, Lk. 21) or the fulfillment of this prophecy. Third, in Revelation 11:1, John is told to “measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there.” Preterist argue that this indicates that the Temple is still standing during the writing of Revelation.{13}

The preterist view, particularly the partial preterist view, is a prominent position held by such notable scholars as R. C. Sproul, Hank Hanegraaff, Kenneth Gentry, and the late David Chilton (who later converted to full preterism after the publishing of his books).

The Historicist View

The third view is called the historicist approach. This view teaches that Revelation is a symbolic representation that presents the course of history from the apostle’s life through the end of the age. The symbols in the apocalypse correspond to events in the history of Western Europe, including various popes, the Protestant Reformation, the French Revolution, and rulers such as Charlemagne. Most interpreters place the events of their day in the later chapters of Revelation.

Many adherents of this position view chapters 1-3 as seven periods in church history. The breaking of the seals in chapters 4-7 symbolizes the fall of the Roman Empire. The Trumpet judgments in chapters 8-10 represent the invasions of the Roman Empire by the Vandals, Huns, Saracens, and Turks. Among Protestant historicists of the Reformation, the antichrist in Revelation was believed to be the papacy. Chapters 11-13 in Revelation represent the true church in its struggle against Roman Catholicism. The bowl judgments of Revelation 14-16 represent God’s judgment on the Catholic Church, culminating in the future overthrow of Catholicism depicted in chapters 17-19.{14}

There are several criticisms of this approach. First, this approach allows for a wide variety of interpretations. Adherents have a tendency to interpret the text through the context of their period. Thus, many saw the climax of the book happening in their generation. John Walvoord points out the lack of agreement among historicists. He states, “As many as fifty different interpretations of the book of Revelation therefore evolve, depending on the time and circumstances of the expositor.”{15} Moses Stuart echoed the same concern in his writings over a century ago. He wrote, “Hithertho, scarcely any two original and independent expositors have agreed, in respect to some points very important in their bearing upon the interpretation of the book.”{16}

Second, this view focuses mostly on the events of the church in Western Europe and says very little about the church in the East. Thus, its narrow scope fails to account for God’s activity throughout Asia and the rest of the world. Finally, this view would have little significance for the church of the first century whom John was addressing. It is unlikely they would have been able to interpret Revelation as the historical approach suggests.

Prominent scholars who held this view include John Wycliffe, John Knox, William Tyndale, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Ulrich Zwingli, John Wesley, Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield, Charles Finney, C. H. Spurgeon, and Matthew Henry. This view rose to popularity during the Protestant Reformation because of its identification of the pope and the papacy with the beasts of Revelation 13. However, since the beginning of the twentieth century, it has declined in popularity and influence.

The Futurist View

The fourth view is the futurist view. This view teaches that the events of the Olivet Discourse and Revelation chapters 4-22 will occur in the future. Futurist divide the book of Revelation into three sections as indicated in 1:19: “what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.” Chapter 1 describes the past (“what you have seen”), chapters 2-3 describe the present (“what is now”), and the rest of the book describes future events (“what will take place later”).

Futurists apply a literal approach to interpreting Revelation. Chapters 4-19 refer to a period known as the seven-year tribulation (Dan. 9:27). During this time, God’s judgments are actually poured out upon mankind as they are revealed in the seals, trumpets, and bowls. Chapter 13 describes a literal future world empire headed by a political and religious leader represented by the two beasts. Chapter 17 pictures a harlot who represents the church in apostasy. Chapter 19 refers to Christ’s second coming and the battle of Armageddon followed by a literal thousand-year rule of Christ upon the earth in chapter 20. Chapters 21-22 are events that follow the millennium: the creation of a new heaven and a new earth and the arrival of the heavenly city upon the earth.

Futurists argue that a consistently literal or plain interpretation is to be applied in understanding the book of Revelation. Literal interpretation of the Bible means to explain the original sense, or meaning, of the Bible according to the normal customary usage of its language. This means applying the rules of grammar, staying consistent with the historical framework, and the context of the writing. Literal interpretation does not discount figurative or symbolic language. Futurists teach that prophecies using symbolic language are also to be normally interpreted according to the laws of language. J. P. Lange stated,

The literalist (so called) is not one who denies that figurative language, that symbols, are used in prophecy, nor does he deny that great spiritual truths are set forth therein; his position is, simply, that the prophecies are to be normally interpreted (i.e., according to the received laws of language) as any other utterances are interpreted – that which is manifestly figurative being so regarded.{17}

Charles Ryrie also states,

Symbols, figures of speech and types are all interpreted plainly in this method, and they are in no way contrary to literal interpretation. After all, the very existence of any meaning for a figure of speech depends on the reality of the literal meaning of the terms involved. Figures often make the meaning plainer, but it is the literal, normal, or plain meaning that they convey to the reader.{18}

Futurists acknowledge the use of figures and symbols. When figurative language is used, one must look at the context to find the meaning. However, figurative language does not justify allegorical interpretation.

Futurists contend that the literal interpretation of Revelation finds its roots in the ancient church fathers. Elements of this teaching, such as a future millennial kingdom, are found in the writings of Clement of Rome (AD 96), Justin Martyr (AD 100-165), Irenaeus (AD 115-202), Tertullian (AD 150-225) and others. Futurists hold that the church fathers taught a literal interpretation of Revelation until Origen (AD 185-254) introduced allegorical interpretation. This then became the popular form of interpretation when taught by Augustine (AD 354-430).{19} Literal interpretation of Revelation remained throughout the history of the church and rose again to prominence in the modern era.

The futurist view is widely popular among evangelical Christians today. One of the most popular versions on futurist teaching is dispensational theology, promoted by schools such as Dallas Theological Seminary and Moody Bible Institute. Theologians such as Charles Ryrie, John Walvoord, and Dwight Pentecost are noted scholars of this position. Tim LaHaye made this theology popular in the culture with his end times series of novels.

Unfortunately, there have been and continue to be popular preachers who mistakenly apply the futurist approach to connect current events to the symbols in Revelation. Some have even been involved in setting dates of Christ’s return. Although their writings have been popular, they do not represent a Biblical futurist view.

Critics of this view argue that the futurist view renders the book irrelevant to the original readers of the first century. Another criticism is that Revelation is apocalyptic literature and thus meant to be interpreted allegorically or symbolically rather than literally. Hank Hanegraaff states, “Thus, when a Biblical writer uses a symbol or an allegory, we do violence to his intentions if we interpret it in a strictly literal manner.”{20}

One of the key elements in the debate, particularly between preterists and futurists, is the date of writing for Revelation. Preterists argue for a pre-AD 70 date while futurists hold to a date of AD 95. There are several reasons for the later date. First, Irenaeus, in his work Against Heresies, states that John wrote Revelation at the end of Emperor Domitian’s reign, which ended in AD 96. Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the Apostle John. He thus had a connection with a contemporary of the Apostle John.

Second, the conditions of the seven churches in Revelation appear to describe a second-generation church setting rather than that of a first-generation. For example, the Church of Ephesus (Rev. 2:1-7) is charged with abandoning their first love and warned of the Nicolaitan heresy. If John had written Revelation in AD 65, it would have overlapped with Paul’s letter to the Ephesians and Timothy. However, Paul makes no mention of either the loss of first love or the threat of the Nicolaitans. Ephesus was Paul’s headquarters for three years, and Apollos served there along with Aquila and Priscilla. The church of Smyrna did not exist during Paul’s ministry (AD 60-64) as recorded by Polycarp, the first bishop of the city. Laodicea (Rev. 3:14-22) is rebuked for being wealthy and lukewarm. However, in his letter to the Colossians, Paul commends the church three times (2:2, 4:13, 16). It would likely take more than three years for the church to decline to the point that chapter 3 would state there to be no commendable aspect about it. Also, an earthquake in AD 61 left the city in ruins for many years. Thus, it is unlikely that in a ruined condition John would describe them as rich.

Preterists who favor the AD 70 date pose the question, “Why doesn’t John mention the fall of the Temple which occurred in AD 70?” Futurists respond that John wrote about future events, and the destruction of the temple was twenty-five years in the past. He also wrote to a Gentile audience in Asia Minor which was far removed from Jerusalem. Preterists also point to the fact that the Temple is mentioned in chapter eleven. Futurists respond that although John mentions a temple in Revelation 11:1-2, this does not mean it exists at the time of his writing. In Daniel 9:26-27 and Ezekiel 40-48, both prophets describe the temple, but it was not in existence when they described a future temple in their writings.

What did Jesus mean in Matthew 24:34 when He said, “[T]his generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened”? The common futurist response is that Jesus was stating that the future generation about which he was speaking would not pass away once “these things” had begun. In other words, the generation living amid the time of the events He predicted will not pass away until all is fulfilled.

Conclusion

The book of Revelation is a fascinating book, and the debate regarding its interpretation will continue. Despite our various views, there are some common threads upon which Christians agree.{21} All views believe that God is sovereign and in charge of all that occurs in history and its ultimate conclusion. Except for full preterism and some forms of idealism, all believe in the physical second coming of Christ. All views believe in the resurrection from the dead. All believe there will be a future judgment. All believe in an eternal state in which believers will be with God, and unbelievers will be separated from Him. All agree upon the importance of the study of prophecy and its edification for the body of Christ.

Unfortunately, the debate among Christians has often been harsh and hostile. It is my hope that the debate would continue in a cordial, respectful manner which will challenge every believer to accurately study and interpret the Word. We all await the return of our Lord and together with the saints of all ages say, “Amen, come Lord Jesus!” (Rev. 22:20)

Notes

1. Hank Hanegraaff, The Apocalypse Code (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 2007), 20.

2. Robert Mounce, The New International Commentary of the New Testament: The Book of Revelation (Grand Rapids: William Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1977), 43.

3. William Milligan, The Book of Revelation (London: Hodder and Stoughton, 1889), 153-4.

4. Leon Morris, Tyndale New Testament Commentaries: Revelation (Grand Rapids: William Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1987), 20.

5. Robert Mounce, 43.

6. Robert Thomas, Revelation: An Exegetical Commentary (Chicago: Moody Press, 1992), 31-2.

7. Merrill Tenney, Interpreting Revelation (Grand Rapids: William Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1957), 146.

8. Steven Gregg, 39.

9. Ibid., 39.

10. Tim LaHaye and Thomas Ice, ed., The End Times Controversy (Eugene, OR.: Harvest House Publishers, 2003), 377.

11. Hanegraaff, 125.

12. Robert Mounce, The New International Commentary of the New Testament: The Book of Revelation (Grand Rapids: William Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1977), 42.

13. Evidence for the AD 95 date of writing will be presented in the futurist section.

14. Steven Gregg, Four Views of Revelation (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1997), 31, 217, 309, & 399).

15. John Walvoord, The Revelation of Jesus Christ (Chicago: Moody Press, 1966), 19.

16. Moses Stuart, A Commentary on the Apocalypse (Edinburgh: Maclachlan, Stewart & Co., 1847), 35.

17. J. P. Lange, Commentary of the Holy Scriptures: Revelation (New York: Scribner’s, 1872), 98, quoted in Charles Ryrie, Dispensationalism (Chicago: Moody Publishers, 2007), 91.

18. Charles Ryrie, Dispensationalism (Chicago: Moody Publishers, 2007), 91.

20. Hanegraaff, 14.

21. Norman Geisler and Ron Rhodes, Conviction Without Compromise (Eugene, OR.: Harvest House Publishers, 2008), 333.

© 2009 Probe Ministries

Online Source: Four Views of Revelation (probe.org)

Yet Another Faulty Argument. . .?

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The following is something I found online in a FB discussion group I’ve continued to read, but am not allowed to respond or comment. The post began with a passage of scripture:

John 20:30-31 NKJV

30And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Author comment:

“The Apostle John lived until AD99. He was there to witness all the events Jesus told him about, including the return of Christ.

John 21:20-24 NKJV

20Then Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following, who also had leaned on His breast at the supper, and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?” 21Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, “But Lord, what about this man?” 22Jesus said to him, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.” 23this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?” 24This is the disciple who testifies of these things, and wrote these things; and we know that his testimony is true.

Author Comment:

“Now you can make these verses say what you want them to say, or you can believe what they say. What they say is John lived to witness the return of Christ, and we know his testimony is true.”

Now that’s a pretty strong statement, but is it true? Before we tackle the veracity issue, let me say that the original post was made by someone (who is not alone) dedicated to fiercely claim/adamantly assert that Jesus’ return to earth has already taken place. I guess she could be called a ‘partial’ preterist, because ‘full’ preterists believe Christ returned in 70 A.D., when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans.

To restate the claim, we are told that since John lived until @ 99A.D., and Jesus said “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?”, John witnessed Jesus’ return, the return of Jesus is in the past! The words of Jesus to Peter, are proof positive, we are told!

Well, is it true? Sadly (for the lady who made the claim), It’s not true, and a single term that Jesus used in in his reply to Peter, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?”

Just to make sure that the hypothetical “IF” was actually in the text, I consulted BibleHub, since I could examine all English translations at a glance. The term “If” appears in forty-five of the forty-six translations listed.

Then, to make sure I wasn’t in error about “if” being a conditional, or hypothetical term, I consulted two excellent Greek concorddances, Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and Thayer’s Greek Lexicon for the definition of “if”.

Strongs, G1437 ἐάν, ean, eh-an’

From G1487 and G302; a conditional particle; in case that, provided, etc.; often used in connection with other particles to denote indefiniteness or uncertainty: – before, but, except, (and) if, (if) so, (what-, whither-) soever, though, when (-soever), whether (or), to whom, [who-] so (-ever). See G3361.

Total KJV occurrences: 297

Thayer Definition:

1) if, in case

Part of Speech: conjunction

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G1487 and G302.

It’s that simple. Jesus simply asked Peter, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?” Period. End of story. In fact, Jesus was telling Peter, who had asked a question about Jesus’ betrayer, basically told him “That’s none of your business, Pete!”

The author of the original post then quoted more scripture that had little to do with Jesus’ return, but why so many don’t believe that Jesus returned in the 1st century, why they just couldn’t see the truth! She actually said that she had been struggling lately about “Why some people can see things and some do not.” . . . “Some just do not believe that Jesus did all He said He would do.”

She had a lot more to say that I’ll not repeat here because it’s really not relevant for this post. I’ll add that I really wanted to respond to her actual post, but alas, I’m banned. But I can message her personally and send her the link to my post here at The Battle Cry.

I am greatly saddened that those that hold to the belief that that Jesus has already returned (sometime in the 1st century) will not even consider that His return might still be in the future. It’s quite similar to those who believe the church didn’t start until sometime in the middle of or late in the book of Acts and that Paul preached a completely different gospel than Jesus and the Apostles.

So there’s my attempt at thinking something through again and writing it down.

Be Blessed!