Category Archives: The Second Coming of Christ

Another Bad Question?

Posted by Dan C. on

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Well, I’ve had another opportunity to analyze an ‘interesting’ question posed from a preterist (all biblical prophecy has been fulfilled) perspective. Let’s jump in.

First of all, we need to put Daniel 12:7 back into the context of Daniel, chapter 12.

The Great Unveiling: Divine Revelations and Eternal Promises

In Daniel 12, we are reminded that no matter how difficult or tumultuous our circumstances may be, God’s protection and promises remain constant. We are also called to seek wisdom and understanding in the face of mystery, reminding us that, ultimately, our quest for knowledge is a divine journey.

Verses 1-4: The Time of Distress and the Promise of Resurrection

These verses describe a time of unparalleled distress that will occur at the end of days. Yet, in this time of strife, Michael, the great prince, will stand to protect Daniel’s people. It also mentions a resurrection, where those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awaken, some to everlasting life and others to everlasting contempt.

Verses 5-7: The Sealed Prophecy

Here, Daniel sees two beings, one on each side of the river, asking the man clothed in linen about when the astonishing events will occur. The man, raising his hands to the heavens, swears by the eternal God that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and when the power of the holy people has been shattered, all these events will be completed.

Verses 8-13: The Duration of the End Times

Daniel, not understanding, asks for clarification. The man, however, tells him that the words are sealed until the time of the end. He describes that the wicked will not understand, but the wise will, and puts forth times and durations to signify the end, blessing those who wait and reach the 1335 days. Finally, Daniel is told to go his way until the end, for he will rest and then rise again for his allotted inheritance at the end of days.

Daniel 12, the concluding chapter of the Book of Daniel, continues and finalizes the long-range prophecy given to Daniel by an angel. In this captivating finale, Daniel receives revelations of the end times, including a period of unmatched distress, the promise of resurrection and judgment, and the sealing of these prophecies until the end time.[i]

First of all, I have no idea exactly why Daniel said what he said in Daniel, Chapter 12. All I know for sure is that an angel (some say Gabriel) spoke to Daniel, that Daniel wrote down what the angel told him, and that Daniel asked for clarification (v. 8), but the angel clarified exactly nothing and told Daniel to go about his way.

Furthermore, I’m not sure Daniel understood what the angel told him either, because he asked for clarification:

“I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, “O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?” (v. 8)

The angel then told Daniel:

“He (the angel) said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.” (v.9)

Let’s move on to what the angel said about the fulfillment of prophecy: “when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished.” (v. 7)

Note that the above meme claims that “the shattering of the power of the holy people” occurred with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. We are to automatically accept that assertion as fact and move on. That’s where my research became interesting. I consulted and recorded information found in nearly a dozen commentaries and found references to a repeated pattern of persecution and the scattering of God’s people at three different specific times:

  • Antiochus Epiphanes’ destruction of Jerusalem in 168 B.C.
  • Rome’s destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
  • The Antichrist’s persecution of Christians in New Testament times, prior to Jesus’ second coming in judgment.

One commentary offered an excellent summary of those periods:

Although Daniel’s understanding had been helped by the interpreting angel, the visions and revelations that God gave him had more significance than he may have realized. Their symbolic meaning extended beyond the period of conflict that followed the Jews’ return from Babylon. The terrible suffering under Antiochus, though it was the last great persecution of the Jews before the coming of the Messiah, was by no means the end of their troubles.

When the Messiah came, the Jewish people as a whole rejected him and brought upon themselves, at the hands of Rome, greater suffering than they had ever experienced before (cf. 7:23-25). Jesus more than once connected the Jews’ rejection of him with the ‘desolating abomination’ and ‘awful horror’ of the Romans’ destruction of Jerusalem (Matthew 21:37-41; Matthew 23:37-38; Matthew 24:15-22,Matthew 24:32-33; Luke 21:20-24; Luke 23:28-31).

Many years after the destruction of Jerusalem, John wrote of the persecution of God’s people, using symbolism that again was taken from the book of Daniel (Revelation 11:1-3; Revelation 12:6-7,Revelation 12:14; Revelation 13:1-12; Revelation 17:8-14). An anti-God spirit had motivated the persecutors of the Jews in Old Testament times, and now the same anti-God spirit was motivating the persecutors of Christians in New Testament times. The anti-God spirit was now specifically anti-Christ. This spirit is always hostile to God and his people (1 John 2:18), and will have its fullest expression in the antichrist who will appear at the end of the age and who will be destroyed by Christ at his coming (2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; Revelation 19:20).

Whatever the era and whoever the antichrist, the message for God’s people is always one of encouragement: ‘he who endures to the end shall be saved’ (Daniel 12:12; Matthew 24:13; 2 Timothy 2:11-12; 2 Timothy 2:11-12; Revelation 12:11; Revelation 13:10; Revelation 20:4). In the end all the powers of this world must give way to the rule of God, whose people inherit his eternal kingdom (Daniel 7:27; Matthew 25:34; Revelation 11:15; Revelation 19:1-8).[ii]

Back to the meme for a just a couple more comments. The shattering of the power of the holy people is equated with “their (Israel’s) old mode of covenantal existence”, which was of course in 70 A.D., when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Roman armies. Disregarding the claim that Israel’s old covenant existence ended in 70 A.D., the more significant question is “When did the Old Covenant with God’s people end and the New Covenant begin?” Two primary passages give us the answer to that question.

Jesus, when he last dined with his disciples told them:

“Luke 22:20b  “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.”  (See also Matt 26:28 & Mark 14:24)

Then, on the cross at Calvary, when the sinless Savior, having fulfilled all the righteous requirements of the law, with his final Jesus declared:

“It is finished” (John 19:30).

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Once again, I’ve had the opportunity to analyze another questionable meme sourced from a full preterist site (ASiteForTheLord.com). You probably won’t find the FB meme at the site (at least I couldn’t), however you can certainly purchase some books and download a free PDF called Fulfilled Eschatology from the homepage, as well as a concise one page summary on the End Times Topics page. ASiteForTheLord memes keep popping up on a couple of sites I visit. I read somewhere that preterists can be really clever at seducing younger believers who are not yet biblically well read into accepting their beliefs. This was just another example.

[i] https://biblehub.com/chaptersummaries/daniel/12.htm

[ii] https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/commentaries/bbc/daniel-12.php

Twisted Logic

Posted by Dan C. on

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That question was found online in a FB group professing to be about Pauline Doctrine. The name was interesting, so I popped in. Turns out it’s run by a couple of ladies who seem to be advocating for full preterism (Jesus returned in judgment in 70AD) in interesting ways. There will be a post that asks a leading question and makes a ‘logical’ suggestion that unwary readers will naturally accept. I’ve been blocked from commenting until the end of January, partly because I suggested that their preterism was showing, and they hated that. Another reader caught on before I did and has since disappeared. He had also been attempting polite conversation about things.

What I have found out is that I can read these seemingly innocent posts, do a little research study and merely respond to them and see what happens, which is what I had been doing and ended up in ‘purgatory’ for a month. I was actually responding to the above question when I found out about my suspension.

If I assume that the above statement telling me “Since messengers of God told those present (at the Ascension) that they’d see His return” was true, the answer could be ‘yes’, however………

The answer is no, because the messengers didn’t tell them they would see Jesus’ return: Here is Acts 11, along with a couple of other passages to add context. The scene is the ascension of Christ after his resurrection.

“Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:9-11, NKJV)

The two messengers didn’t tell those present that they would ‘see’ his return. That passage just says the Jesus would come again to Earth in like manner (in the same way) he left. So how did he leave? What does “in like manner” mean?

1. Well, since Jesus ascended after his resurrection, He left in a glorified body and will return in his glorified body.

2. He ascended in clouds, so He will return in clouds, which was an Old Testament Prophecy Daniel 7:13, as well as something Jesus told a Jewish High Priest at his trial Matthew 26:64.

That means that the assertion (it wasn’t an ‘IF’ statement), “Since messengers of God told those present (at the Ascension) that they’d see His return” was false on its face.

Pretty slick! Start with a false assumption, combined with a partial truth in order to suggest your ‘logical’ conclusion. It’s true that ‘someone’ told the disciples that some of them would “see the Son of man coming in his kingdom” (See Matt 16:28, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27) but that doesn’t necessarily mean Jesus was talking about his return to at His second  coming. There are alternative interpretations, and since I’m merely suggesting here, I’ll leave further research to you. Isn’t Bible study fun?

So there it is. A false assertion was made, leading to a ‘logical’ conclusion. There was no direct assertion that Jesus returned in judgment, just a nice little question based on a false statement. The reader is supposed to realize ‘logically’ that Jesus return to earth was in 70 AD. That was the point of the meme and exactly what “full preterism” teaches, as opposed to other interpretations of prophecy that claim that the 2nd coming of Christ is still in the future (partial preterism, historicism, futurism). Why a couple of FB group admins would bristle at my mentioning preterism, I’ll probably never know.

So call this an academic exercise. Along the way, I really dug into scripture, commentaries, as well as articles I could find online, therefore enhancing my knowledge concerning Bible prophecy!

Be Blessed!