Twisted Logic

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That question was found online in a FB group professing to be about Pauline Doctrine. The name was interesting, so I popped in. Turns out it’s run by a couple of ladies who seem to be advocating for full preterism (Jesus returned in judgment in 70AD) in interesting ways. There will be a post that asks a leading question and makes a ‘logical’ suggestion that unwary readers will naturally accept. I’ve been blocked from commenting until the end of January, partly because I suggested that their preterism was showing, and they hated that. Another reader caught on before I did and has since disappeared. He had also been attempting polite conversation about things.

What I have found out is that I can read these seemingly innocent posts, do a little research study and merely respond to them and see what happens, which is what I had been doing and ended up in ‘purgatory’ for a month. I was actually responding to the above question when I found out about my suspension.

If I assume that the above statement telling me “Since messengers of God told those present (at the Ascension) that they’d see His return” was true, the answer could be ‘yes’, however………

The answer is no, because the messengers didn’t tell them they would see Jesus’ return: Here is Acts 11, along with a couple of other passages to add context. The scene is the ascension of Christ after his resurrection.

“Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:9-11, NKJV)

The two messengers didn’t tell those present that they would ‘see’ his return. That passage just says the Jesus would come again to Earth in like manner (in the same way) he left. So how did he leave? What does “in like manner” mean?

1. Well, since Jesus ascended after his resurrection, He left in a glorified body and will return in his glorified body.

2. He ascended in clouds, so He will return in clouds, which was an Old Testament Prophecy Daniel 7:13, as well as something Jesus told a Jewish High Priest at his trial Matthew 26:64.

That means that the assertion (it wasn’t an ‘IF’ statement), “Since messengers of God told those present (at the Ascension) that they’d see His return” was false on its face.

Pretty slick! Start with a false assumption, combined with a partial truth in order to suggest your ‘logical’ conclusion. It’s true that ‘someone’ told the disciples that some of them would “see the Son of man coming in his kingdom” (See Matt 16:28, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27) but that doesn’t necessarily mean Jesus was talking about his return to at His second  coming. There are alternative interpretations, and since I’m merely suggesting here, I’ll leave further research to you. Isn’t Bible study fun?

So there it is. A false assertion was made, leading to a ‘logical’ conclusion. There was no direct assertion that Jesus returned in judgment, just a nice little question based on a false statement. The reader is supposed to realize ‘logically’ that Jesus return to earth was in 70 AD. That was the point of the meme and exactly what “full preterism” teaches, as opposed to other interpretations of prophecy that claim that the 2nd coming of Christ is still in the future (partial preterism, historicism, futurism). Why a couple of FB group admins would bristle at my mentioning preterism, I’ll probably never know.

So call this an academic exercise. Along the way, I really dug into scripture, commentaries, as well as articles I could find online, therefore enhancing my knowledge concerning Bible prophecy!

Be Blessed!

We Believe What We Want to Believe

The title above is this septuagenarian’s (old guy) ‘at the end of the day’ opinion/conclusion. Furthermore, I think it applies to pretty much all of us and that it also applies to a great many issues and topics in our lives. I have also noticed that after many ears of paying attention to the world around me we can go to ridiculous extremes in our thinking and reasoning to justify our personal opinions. While we are quite capable of rational thought, we can toss it aside as we go to great lengths to ‘prove’ our case. Our personal opinions and conclusions trump what appears to be simple common sense and logic.

The current political climate in our nation is probably a great example. Without discussing details, it’s pretty ugly, is it not? Then there are our pet ‘causes’. In our quest for ‘social justice’ we can adopt genuinely discriminatory actions and policies, while we claim to hate discrimination! Prove me wrong, please!

The same principle applies to matters of faith and religion, even Christianity. Just recently, I’ve been involved in a discussion with another Christian concerning, in part, the Kingdom of God; specifically, Mark 1:15 and these words of Jesus:

“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” (KJV)

In a couple of comment exchanges my friend told me that the Kingdom of God had NOT come. When I replied with Jesus very words that it HAD (past tense) come, he explained his reasoning. When Jesus spoke those words the Kingdom of God HAD come, but He put the Kingdom of God on hold, which is nowhere stated in scripture that I can find. After more than one comment exchange, my friend told me that Jesus put the kingdom on hold because, as Paul stated in Acts 13, the religious Jews refused to receive Jesus as the long-awaited Messiah. He referenced dispensationalism as his ‘proof’ reasoning, as if dispensationalism is settled doctrine. When I mentioned that the big “D” was developed by men (Darby an others) in the 19th century it didn’t even phase him. Likewise, when I suggested that the Kingdom of God might have both a spiritual meaning in the here and now and a physical meaning in the future, I think it went right past his ‘think box’.

Finally, I tried to present the “agree to disagree” thought and he just kept arguing. Finally, I just told him that I’m probably a covenantal dispensationalist, since I do believe that both covenants and dispensations can be found in Scripture. I added that or little ‘debate’ concerned secondary or maybe tertiary issues and that we did agree with the primary issue of the definition of the gospel is what Paul preached in 1 Cor 15:1-4.

Having said that, allow me to reiterate my firm conviction that ‘at the end of the day’, we tend to believe what we want to believe. What we want to believe can depend on various factors, based on our natural inclinations as well outside sources. Once we (Christians included) are convinced that our opinion or view of an issue is THE right one, we can go to great lengths to ‘prove’ our ‘rightness’ and the ‘wrongness’ of any other opinion or belief.

So, the big question for me at the moment is “WHY do we who profess Christ and are filled/baptized with the Spirit when we are born again insist that we are ‘right’ and the other believer is ‘wrong’ about spiritual matters/theology/doctrines when the topic(s) at hand are not explicit, but merely implicit in Scripture? And secondarily, why do we sometimes insist that our ‘debate’ partner is trying to ‘prove’ his/her point when he/she is merely trying to have a simple discussion concerning something?

I’m reminded of the first stanza of that timeless hymn ’Tis So Sweet to Trust in Jesus (Louisa M. R. Stead, 1882)

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So What? How do I apply that to my Christian walk?

It’s rather simple, really! I need to focus on Jesus’ simple, clear promises found in the text of scripture, and trust God with all of the details. Yes, “Virginia”, the Kingdom of God is real, and it has multiple meanings in the pages of the Bible.

If, along the way I find out that someone, somewhere, as some point in time “discovered” and started teaching the details only God knows for sure, I can put them in a ‘non-essential but interesting’ file. It’s just sad that the friend I’ve been talking about is so stuck in a form of dispensationalism that he won’t even consider the possibility of the Kingdom of God having more than one meaning. So we can pray for him and others whose minds are similarly ‘rusted shut” by doctrines of human invention. I also thank God for changing what I WANT to believe through the presence of the Holy Spirit who dwells within.

Have a blessed Day!